Bognor Paul Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Stuarts Blackbird had a pair of Remus exhausts (poor soul), we run it on the dyno and it hit 137.9bhp (torque 75.8). We then put on a pair of Harris U range exhausts. no other mods whatsoever. We gave it one run to heat it up, then on the second run we hit 157.3 bhp (torque 86.5). True, the Remus mufflers had baffles, but what a hike! The bike was on 204, no power commander, and the sound was awasome when we'd done. Take a look at the Blackbird Test in the news section on http://www.urbanept.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broknarrow Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 NICE AD FUCKO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squareman357 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 NICE AD FUCKO! LOL! Not to mention the site probably has spyware and crap on it. I wouldn't visit there if he paid me. Admins will get around to deleting this sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Link is a good one, no spyware that I can tell, but it's definitely an ad. I'll let it go for now, but we'll be keeping an eye on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogoMan Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Not even a pipe listed for the XX on their site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXSTAR Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 If I buy 4 of them will that give me 80 more HP. I take 2 set thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDAZ XX Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 NICE AD FUCKO! and not a good liar either!! Dude your........................... SO FULL OF SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerXX Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 NICE AD FUCKO! and not a good liar either!! Dude your........................... SO FULL OF SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! +1 And hang a big BS on it. :icon_argue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bognor Paul Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Apologies guys, thought you may be interested. Not meant to be an ad, I'm a biker just like you. ps, not full of shit and definately not a liar, this was what happened. i would be a lot happer if you took this as information, the link was purely to give you the gaphs. and no spyware or crap on it. I know feck all about computers, just bikes. If the admin guy Northman reads this, take off the link, ain't got an issue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Where's the Blackbird test you referred to? I didn't crawl the whole site, but couldn't readily find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexxus Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Where's the Blackbird test you referred to? I didn't crawl the whole site, but couldn't readily find it. hey joe' i read it in the new's page section. it there with dyno sheet's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bognor Paul Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 Where's the Blackbird test you referred to? I didn't crawl the whole site, but couldn't readily find it. go to news page then you'll see the Blackbird Test page. Formatting is a bit sh*te, just lobbed the graphs on there because I'd been asked. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Thanks. One of those things I'd have to see to believe. I'd expect relatively similar curves......after all, its the same engine. But virtually identical curves moved up the graph 20 horsepower makes me kinda skeptical. Drop a set off to someone here in the colonies for evaluation and if it works, you'll have the greatest advertising you can imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 hmmm... I've got to agree with Joe... The curves are literally, exactly the same curve moved up, and the peak hp is at exactly the same rpm?? All of this on the ultra-shitty stock header?!?! I'm with Joe again... Drop a set off to someone over here and we'll see... They do look good, and if they perform well (as shown on an independant dyno in the 'states), they should sell well. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bognor Paul Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 hmmm... I've got to agree with Joe... The curves are literally, exactly the same curve moved up, and the peak hp is at exactly the same rpm?? All of this on the ultra-shitty stock header?!?! I'm with Joe again... Drop a set off to someone over here and we'll see... They do look good, and if they perform well (as shown on an independant dyno in the 'states), they should sell well. Mike gentlemen, i'm sure I can sort something out. I assure you I don't mess with numbers. The tests were done on a Land and Sea dyno we imported from the States, best dyno there is, got to say. I am now concerned about the ad thing and getting a slagging from members, so if you have a chum that has a dyno, then email me personally. (can that be done?) I'll then explain how the thing works. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I think they may work..That is if you use Two2cool with it..You know the stuff that prevents overheating. But your bike oil has to reach 300f + to see the cooling..Two2cool seeks out heat hunts it down and cools it. I'm not calling this a a lair but it would be easy to do so. Yeah 20 extra HP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exskibum Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I'll then explain how the thing works. Why wait? I'd love to hear how it works. There are plenty of us familiar with engines, with header function and skeptical but interested in something that actually does give a 20 hp boost. I'd love to hear the reason why I can allay my natural skepticism of something that sounds too good to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I'll go as far to say that you will NOT gain anywhere near 20RWHP with any exhaust mods, let alone just a set of cans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 hmmm... I've got to agree with Joe... The curves are literally, exactly the same curve moved up, and the peak hp is at exactly the same rpm?? All of this on the ultra-shitty stock header?!?! I'm with Joe again... Drop a set off to someone over here and we'll see... They do look good, and if they perform well (as shown on an independant dyno in the 'states), they should sell well. Mike gentlemen, i'm sure I can sort something out. I assure you I don't mess with numbers. The tests were done on a Land and Sea dyno we imported from the States, best dyno there is, got to say. I am now concerned about the ad thing and getting a slagging from members, so if you have a chum that has a dyno, then email me personally. (can that be done?) I'll then explain how the thing works. Cheers I wouldn't praise that dyno just yet. I have two 99 Blackbirds that I ran on a dynojet back in Nov. The streetbike made 138 HP and the dragbike made 133 HP. Two days ago I ran them on an eddy current style dyno. Streetbike made 122 Hp. WTF! The dragbike which now has a Wiseco 1195 kit, a five-angle valve job, and very mild port work made 170 HP!! No other changes and still stock compression with a zero map in the PC. Raise your hand if you buy that figure. :icon_snooty: (crickets chirping) I am going to try a different dyno shop. I think you might want to do the same. Then you at least have some back-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bognor Paul Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 OK Chaps. First on the dyno. The two tests were done on the same dyno, within 3 hours of each other. we actualy did 3 test - the first with the Remus cans, we then did a second run after fitting the new cans which made 153bhp, we then did a third run immediately after (with heat in the can, as this will affect the operation - and before you start shouting bollox, wait for the description on how it works) which then made 157. we often do a back to base run as a confirmation, but we didn't cos it was a bit of a swine getting the tax dic holder on the rear foot peg. They are normally within 1hp anyway. The importance is the percentage change. Forgive my English, but we changed only the end can, (or muffler) not the exhaust system, all we had to do was slightly alter the link pipe to fit them. The exhaust can works by balancing the reflections going back to the head. This is done in the can, and unlke an EXUP, which is restrictive (for emissions), the flow increases with pressure and reacts to the pulses, which is why it has to get up to temperature. The effect is much the same as trying to balance the pulses in the inlet tract as with the variable lengths (only 2 really) to broaden the efficiency band (we have also sorted that but I ain't even trying to go there with the reception so far on the cans). So quite simply, get the valve/ header pressures sorted, and you got yer engine sorted. The reason that the graphs will lok similar is because it reacts throughout the rev range, and we'd be pretty p*ssed if it started showing any flat spots. As I said at the start, the Remus cans did have baffles, we often get around a 10% increase (this starts to lower depending on the state of tune) so we were pleasantly suprised with the hike. I have never guaranteed to anyone a particular horsepower gain, just a gain. Anyways, the guy with the Bird was as happy as a pig in muck, main thing eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XX4me Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Hmmmmm? I had to check the calender to make sure today wasn't April 1st. Getting 20 horsepower out of a finely tuned exhaust system seems a bit of a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Run that bike at the track with a decent rider. Fuck the dyno and it's repeatability. Show me trap speeds. If you gain 4-5 mph in the 1/4 mile , then maybe I'd turn an ear to that product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exskibum Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 The exhaust can works by balancing the reflections going back to the head. This is done in the can, and unlke an EXUP, which is restrictive (for emissions), the flow increases with pressure and reacts to the pulses, which is why it has to get up to temperature. The effect is much the same as trying to balance the pulses in the inlet tract as with the variable lengths (only 2 really) to broaden the efficiency band (we have also sorted that but I ain't even trying to go there with the reception so far on the cans). So quite simply, get the valve/ header pressures sorted, and you got yer engine sorted. The reason that the graphs will lok similar is because it reacts throughout the rev range, and we'd be pretty p*ssed if it started showing any flat spots. Alright, that's a starting point. Now, please explain what you mean and how balancing the pulses effects this HP increase. Are you talking about something like airbox resonance effecting the amount of air flow in the inlet tract, but in the exhaust tract in this application? If so, how does that work? Are you talking about this somehow generating (or increasing) a negative pressure wave up the exhaust tract of individual cylinders that effectively acts as a vacuum to increase gas velocity through the cylinder during overlap (when exhaust and intake valves are both open), thereby getting more mixture at higher pressure into the combustion chamber and generating HP from that increased charge like a tuned header does? And if this works with the OEM 4-2-1-2 Blackbird header, why wouldn't you get even more HP from a 4-2-1 aftermarket header with these cans? Seriously, I'm interested if there's a mechanism at work here that I don't understand, but I'm not following how the physics work here. A more complete explanation would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 He's talking about the same effect as intake resonance, like in the "tuned port" designs and such. There is some of this in stock exhaust systems too. EVLXX was talking about it in his mixture talkings about exhaust gas temperature change with air:fuel mixture change. It works by creating a pressure wave back toward the exhaust valve, and timing is such that the instant after the pressure wave bounces off of the exhaust valve and creates a low pressure space right there, it helps to suck the spent mixture out of the cylinder. This is very similar to the way the variable intake works, except at the most effecient rpm on the intake side, the valve opens right before the pressure wave, and the higher pressure increases the amount of fuel:air mixture that can be sucked into the cylinders. My only problem is that resonance only works well at a set rpm (that rpm changes with egt changes), and if there are (2) resonance tracks, then there are (2) fairly narrow rpm bands that it works in. I would think that these (2) fairly narrow bands in which this resonance works would change the shape of the dyno chart in those areas, the same way there is a jump in the graph when the variable intake goes from long runners to short runners on a car. Bottom line is, I personally won't believe it until someone I know (one of the main people on this board) gets a pair and dynos them in the 'states. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bognor Paul Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hi Mike At last we're getting serious. Almost there. Faith in a forums meaningfulness restored. Thank you. To get the engine sorted, rather than spending a fortune on the cam and lighter components (reducing longevity) we looked at valve operation. We first worked on the inlet tract, spot on with the variable flow (only 2) inlet tract. but what we have done is a finite control of the vacuum which therefor works throughout the range instead of being tuned two two ranges.. Speed of operation was the main issue. We did this 10 years ago to try to make a more efficient burn (not throw extra fuel at it) to solve emissions issues. Sorted it and patented it. On carb 4 strokes we regularly reduced CO by70% and HC by 35%, with no significant change in NOX. this has been tested worldwide and MIRA in the UK found the most efficient was our unit and an inexpensive Nox cat Did they take this up? Did they chuf. Too much dosh being made by the big boys on cats. not bull, fact. So we took it to bikes, as they at the time wern't on the cat route, and found a few more annomolies, like slipper clutch effect (as it will release high vacuum so you cannot lock up the back wheel. slight gain in power and fuel efficienc, (obviously good gain if you drop out the cat) and less of a surge on track exiting bends hard. It works best on carb bikes, but we still use it on injected engines. No I ain't selling any cos we have to fit them and tune them in, and Bognor would be quite a Sunday run for you guys. We are currently working on an injected model. So that was the true variable inlet effect sorted. So to complete the system we worked on a similar principle on the exhaust. Same thing again, the standard absorbtion silencer has been the same Burgess design for decades, with the work focused on out of phase frequencies for sound, aesthetics, and various valves (exup) to reduce flow (again for emissions). Like the inlet tract, the exhaust is only perfect at a certain rev range balancing the reflections. and like the inlet, variable length exhausts have been used in cars (again really only two lengths). Ours works by balancing those waves/pressures throughout the range. Whilst we have a patent on this both in the US and Europe, I am still wary to put a drawing of the actual operation on an open forum. We are only a small companyat the moment. We have many test results and many track successes, press reports and a couple of awards. The reason I put this result on your forum was because iexceeded even our expectations. if one of the guys from the board wishes to email me I will send him/her some of our succeses, and some of the other dyno graphs to stay off the forum (I am aware of the ad issue). and I am not saying we will have the same gain every time. I thank you for your time Eskibum and Bartonmd, and will talk about evaluation/ US dyno off the forum if you wish (I would prefer this) Regards Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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