beondwacko Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 So, This system scavenges like the header collector from heaven? This allows for the great jump in VE? And it does it this throughout the RPM range, not just a small window at a given engine speed? Between heat management, sonic reflection engineering, and muffler volume these gains can be achieved? With out specific header design, I find that difficult to embrace myself. But then again, I'm no engineer, just an old time hot rodder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 As the myth busters would say…. "PLAUSIBLE" But it's going to come at a cost. That cost being a very shortened header pipe life. Why, because it works off of heat. Note he says … We gave it one run to heat it up, then on the second run we hit 157.3 bhp (torque 86.5).. Additionally the cleaner emissions are also due to the higher exhaust temperatures. And yes it's been used in other areas for years, and yes it should increase and smooth out the torque curve. Yamaha tried to use a similar method on the early FJ's in 84 and 85, but stopped in 86 due to cracks in the exhaust. I believe both the 84 and 85 units had a double wall header design. And the Muffler baffle/tube is still being used to this day, case in point, once again Yamaha, makes a Power tube for it's older 4 stroke dirt bikes. This unit has an exit whole about the size of my pinky finger on a 450cc engine. (And where most guys are removing there's on the new Bikes…. I kept mine on there, because it works for what I need it to do.) It's a Torque tube, that's downfall is High flow rates. From looking at his Dyno sheet he posted, it hits the wall at 9550 rpm. Notice the steady decline after that. There's lots of evidence out there that would support his claims, but there's almost no evidence in terms of reliability over extended periods. I would also be willing to speculate, that this unit will perform excellent on a Dyno in a shop, but may suffer out on the street unless the bike owner puts on some header tape or some type of shielding. Which also brings up a few more questions like Oil life (due to the oil pans proximity to the header), body panels, frame metal fatigue, and rider discomfort. I would love to get into this more, because there's lots more to it…. But don't have the time. Like I said… Plausible ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 A coupla things poped into my head reading that,,,,the old cyclone anti reversion header and the honda free radical engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 A coupla things poped into my head reading that,,,,the old cyclone anti reversion header and the honda free radical engine. I'm not familluar with those.......... do tell. Or point me in the right direction.. please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBadExxample Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 A coupla things poped into my head reading that,,,,the old cyclone anti reversion header and the honda free radical engine. I'm not familluar with those.......... do tell. Or point me in the right direction.. please. At first I figured Stan was feeding us a West Texas stool sample. So enter The Google. Best I can tell a cyclone anti reversion header is legit. I'm still not sure about the Honda free radical engine. I think Stan might be joking us..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 free radical reading search This should get you started... I would not shit you,,,,,you know the rest,,,,your my fav. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Aaha... Yes Stan, we are talking about the same priciples... I just did not know, or maybe remember, there specific names... Copied from another site. Turning to FIG. 3, the exhaust system 10 also preferably employs reverse flow controllers 34 at each exhaust port 17. The reverse flow controllers are passive devices comprising a relatively short length of relatively small diameter tubing 21 extending from the exhaust port 17 disposed, preferably coaxially, within a length of relatively large diameter tubing 23 that is coupled to the inlet end 13 of the associated primary tube portion of the header tube. The tubing 23 is disposed around the tubing 21 to provide a gap therebetween. It is believed that the reverse flow controllers prevent unwanted reverse flow of exhaust gas into the induction system that can occur when exhaust velocity is low and scavenging is insufficient to assist in drawing the air-fuel mixture into the cylinder. Such controllers have been commercially marketed under the trademark AR ("Anti-Reversion") by the Cyclone and Blackjack header companies, which are presently owned by Tenneco Automotive of Lake Forest, Ill. The exhaust system 10 also preferably employs a step 36 in the diameter of the header tube or tubes. The step 36 demarcates upstream and downstream portions of the header tube or tubes, and may or may not have an associated axial length dimension "a" of its own. Upstream of the step 36, the diameter of the header tube is smaller, and downstream of the step 36, the diameter of the header tube is larger. It is believed that the step 36 when strategically positioned provides for increased engine torque at lower to mid-range engine speeds without decreasing torque at higher engine speeds. Stepped header tubes are commercially marketed under the trademark TORK-STEP by Hedman Hedders of Cerritos, Calif. The combination of all of the aforementioned features is believed to particularly enhance the performance and efficiency of internal combustion engines in vehicles. However, it is also believed that the features may employed in selected sub-combinations, or may be employed in isolation to achieve performance and efficiency gains as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exskibum Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I would not shit you,,,,, Not unless you're talking politics to us. Even the liberals on the board trust you on the tech stuff, Stan. NBL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 I would not shit you,,,,, Not unless you're talking politics to us. Even the liberals on the board trust you on the tech stuff, Stan. NBL Now that is funny I don't care who (or what) YA ARE!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :icon_silenced: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Tell you what, I have a dyno session coming in the next month for my XX. Numerous engine mods, overbored to 1255cc, TiForce full exhaust, etc. Pushing ~200RWHP right now, 110lb/ft of torque. Send me a can to replace my TiForce can, and we'll test it back to back. If I see any gain from your can, I'll buy it. Otherwise, ship it back to you. All it would cost you is the shipping both ways to Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bognor Paul Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Gentlemen I give up!!!!! You've gone gone off on the wrong track again. Jesus H. I had less problems explaining ths to my daughter (she's 14) I thought we wre getting somewhere before the crap and the patent quotes since the latter quotes of page 1 We have won British Supersport with it, worked with Airwaves Ducati, won Superside F1 (sidecars), won a Millenium Award for Industry, and this weekend got fastest lap at Snetterton in BSB with an MV. We got quoted in Fastbikes as producing "the most exiting 600 they have ever riden". I only put this on your site because I thought you would be interested on the hike to your specific model, the Blackbird. More fool me. The heat that you all bang on about is because of the temperature of springs ( figure that one out) If anyone is seriously interested in serious discussion, could I ask the board if it is possible to give out my e-mail. But I do not want the forum waffle shite. I have offered to the board a chance to contact me to arrange a trial, which I know I can come good. Now if you want to take that up, fine. you have my email If not I will bow down gracefully and get off your site. Please please please, do not post another thread unless it is constructive/informative/relative. Northman, quite happy to take you up on your offer. Time for bed. Night night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Northman, quite happy to take you up on your offer. You have an email, Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBadExxample Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Northman, quite happy to take you up on your offer. You have an email, Paul. Good job guys. I really, really hope this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exskibum Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Gentlemen I give up!!!!! You've gone gone off on the wrong track again. Jesus H. I had less problems explaining ths to my daughter (she's 14) I thought we wre getting somewhere before the crap and the patent quotes since the latter quotes of page 1 We have won British Supersport with it, worked with Airwaves Ducati, won Superside F1 (sidecars), won a Millenium Award for Industry, and this weekend got fastest lap at Snetterton in BSB with an MV. We got quoted in Fastbikes as producing "the most exiting 600 they have ever riden". I only put this on your site because I thought you would be interested on the hike to your specific model, the Blackbird. More fool me. The heat that you all bang on about is because of the temperature of springs ( figure that one out) If anyone is seriously interested in serious discussion, could I ask the board if it is possible to give out my e-mail. But I do not want the forum waffle shite. I have offered to the board a chance to contact me to arrange a trial, which I know I can come good. Now if you want to take that up, fine. you have my email If not I will bow down gracefully and get off your site. Please please please, do not post another thread unless it is constructive/informative/relative. Northman, quite happy to take you up on your offer. Time for bed. Night night Huh??? Ohhh -- last line may explain. Get some sleep Paul and relax a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXSTAR Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 All I know is if it will give me 20 hp I am in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bognor Paul Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 You got an email Chris we are going to sort it Watch this space 2.30 am in the UK, the wife is calling Tomorow is sort out day Good night US Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Gentlemen I give up!!!!! You've gone gone off on the wrong track again. The heat that you all bang on about is because of the temperature of springs ( figure that one out) OK... now.. no need to give up. We were just having a bit of speculation, surrounding your rather vague description. You see... we want to know how it works before we buy it... not the other way round. We don't want to buy it and then find out, it doesn't work, or doesn't work as good as you claim. If it works as good as you claim... after Chris has tested it... I'm sure you're going to sell more than just a couple. ... as for your hint in the middle of said post.... I know what you're getting at now, and well that's never been done before... and worked. So... only time will tell. I'll keep watching. Good night and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Gentlemen I give up!!!!! You've gone gone off on the wrong track again. Jesus H. I had less problems explaining ths to my daughter (she's 14) I thought we wre getting somewhere before the crap and the patent quotes since the latter quotes of page 1 We have won British Supersport with it, worked with Airwaves Ducati, won Superside F1 (sidecars), won a Millenium Award for Industry, and this weekend got fastest lap at Snetterton in BSB with an MV. We got quoted in Fastbikes as producing "the most exiting 600 they have ever riden". I only put this on your site because I thought you would be interested on the hike to your specific model, the Blackbird. More fool me. The heat that you all bang on about is because of the temperature of springs ( figure that one out) If anyone is seriously interested in serious discussion, could I ask the board if it is possible to give out my e-mail. But I do not want the forum waffle shite. I have offered to the board a chance to contact me to arrange a trial, which I know I can come good. Now if you want to take that up, fine. you have my email If not I will bow down gracefully and get off your site. Please please please, do not post another thread unless it is constructive/informative/relative. Northman, quite happy to take you up on your offer. Time for bed. Night night Now don't get me wrong, I understand and think you have someting there. Your working in an area where very little has been done as far as improvements, in my opinion. I have worked with two stroke expansion chambers, and step headers in pro stock, and tuned pipes in cosworth and lotus and ferrari. Velocity is the key and mass is the medium. Do you see a fuel increase, or decrease. Wondering because if you reduce the presure the piston sees at exhaust stroke would decrease parasitic losses without fuel changes. Are the controls all internal? Are there any external control sources, IE vacumn required? Now, in case you cant tell, my headers are custom made, and are 2 into 1. Would there be any problems with my system working? Is there any advantages or disadvantages to the ceramic coating on my headers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bognor Paul Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 good morning CBRXXQuad / EVLXX chris s sending me some details then I'll get a can made up for him and send it for him to have a play with. Doubtless he will tell you guys because when he sees it it will be so obvious. My hint has got you on the right track again. The controls are all in the can, self contained. the vacuum take off we use is for the InTech unit (mentioned this earlier), not the can. We have never had to rejet or remap. (there is one exception, which we are working on, won't go into that right now) We originally tries ceramic coating of some of the components in the can because of heat build up (the F1 sidecar boys can 'blue' up a can in one session). No need now. Ceramc coating of the headers, although I have not done this, would throw the heat into the can (not great), but would give a smoother flow, good. Not a problem with a 2 into 1 system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 All I know is if it will give me 20 hp I am in. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 good morning CBRXXQuad / EVLXX chris s sending me some details then I'll get a can made up for him and send it for him to have a play with. I can return my bike to completely stock form in about 30 minutes, with that in mind, I'm tempted to see if your product is as good as you say it is. On a stock bike... not a highly modified one like Chris's. So.... you've got another e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 good morning CBRXXQuad / EVLXX chris s sending me some details then I'll get a can made up for him and send it for him to have a play with. I can return my bike to completely stock form in about 30 minutes, with that in mind, I'm tempted to see if your product is as good as you say it is. On a stock bike... not a highly modified one like Chris's. So.... you've got another e-mail. Between the two, even as expensive as it would be, I would be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Still waiting on an e-mail from Paul.... But in the meantime... what in the heck kinda symbol is that for the currency? Is that the symbol for the euro ? Edited : never mind I found it, it's the symbol for the Pound / or GBP. So one pipe at 299 GBP = 586.48 USD. ........ and I would need 2 of them.... that's $1,172.96 + shipping........ ouch. So that breaks down to $58.64 per Hp. ......... hmmmmmmm. ... and does anybody wanna guess what it's goning to cost to ship a set of pipes over here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 ... and does anybody wanna guess what it's goning to cost to ship a set of pipes over here ? The only number I have is for the Blackbird panniers from David Silver Spares in the UK; 106 GBP shipping to the west coast USA. The panniers would be in much bigger box(es), so not sure if that's useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT Ski Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 for that much cash they had better give the 20 hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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