New Tool Tuesday

[rockmeupto125]

Okay, it's time for a little story.

 

Blue truck makes a grindy noise.  Can't be positive if its the fenortinny rod bushing or the reciprocating gungulator shaft union, but both are on infinite back order so I decided to just change the brakes and rotors because they don't seem as smooth as usual and I'm almost out of brake fluid.

 

One side is a 15 minute job if you know where in my garage the correct sockets are.  I don't, so 45 minutes into an easy job, I come to a dead stop with a pair of exponentially torque resistant bolts. Progressing rapidly through 3/8ths to 1/2 inch, 16 inch breaker, 6 point wrench with hammer, 24 inch breaker, 24 inch with torque multipliers (jack handle, then 4ft fence pipe), it was decided this task needed to escalate aggressively.  The 95 degree ambient temp was certainly not enough, so we were going to need more heat.  Now if you've seen my garage, you'll appreciate that when I say it would take an hour to get my tanks outside, I mean it. That's another hour in the heat, so forget that.  A MAPP torch would work, if I could only find mine.  And there's also the consideration of heating components that I might not want to have to replace. 

 

 

Here's one of those bolts.  The other looks quite similar.

 

 

So I grab a suspiciously clean box off my shelf.  It's clean because I put it there only a few days before this.  I used a blade to get through the super grip tape used for boxes intended for international shipping.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And oh my goodness, what is this? Maybe an oboe!  Correctly played, it can make people leave their seats.  Maybe it will do the same with bolts!

 

 

 

 

The bubble wrap goes to the lady.  As suspected, she is cheaply and easily pleased.

 

 

 

But, no oboe.  Instead, this pleasantly tinted box holds a special tool indeed...a space age item called an induction heater.  Been wanting one for a while, and now that money is becoming quickly worthless, this was getting to be at an attractive price.  It's a 1000 watt unit, whatever that means, and came with several heating coils in different configurations, as well as the requisite paperwork.

 

 

 

 

Which was quickly man-processed.

 

 

 

 

So I placed an appropriate coil in the screw fastening blocks, plug it in, and approach the insolent bolt, heeding the instructions not to dry fire the device, but to only activate it under load. 

 

 

 

I place the coil around the bolt, and fire it off.  A fan comes on, and an LED.

 

 

 

 

After 30 seconds of therapy, the bolt looks like this.

 

 

 

 

I again approach the bolt......

 

 

 

 

And after a second 30 second therapy session, the bolt now looks like this. 

 

 

[rockmeupto125]

 

After 2 more 30 minutes second treatments, the bolt continues to appear undisturbed, but there is some significant heat coming off it.  Of course, I neglected to drag out my digital thermometer.  Next, time, I assure you.  A little tug with a 24 inch breaker bar and the bolt readily loosened.  The exact same process worked for the second bolt.

 

 

 

 

 

After a half turn, I was able to spin these guys out with my 3/8ths electric ratchet.  And would you look at that...over 200k miles and these little wretches still have the factory threadlocker on them.  Those caliper mounts weren't coming off without a fight. 

 

 

 

 

 

A brief application of T30 bit on the rotor and it's FREE, FREE from its prison of the last 11 years.  Does anyone know how much a Silverado 1500 brake rotor weighs?   Steel toed shoes are a good thing.

 

 

 

 

That I'm not wearing.  After an hour break to ice my foot and cool off, and then see if my toe bent in the right direction, the whole thing went back together pretty readily.

 

 

 

 

And my shiny new brake rotor a couple days later when I remembered to take a picture.  The grinding went away, so I don't have to go to the junkyard looking for backordered parts.  I went anyway, but that's another story.

 

 

 

So, bottom line.

 

I got a new 1000 watt induction heater to try out.  Never used one before.  I don't know how hot it got, and there's no way to prove that using it is what allowed me to remove the bolts. 

 

Scientifically, I've made no progress.

 

And from a user perspective, there was a noise, I spent several hundred dollars, now there is not a noise and I got my brake fluid back.  I walked with a limp anyway, so there really wasn't a change there.

[ptxyz]

as if i needed another tool, thanks...  😜

 

about $200, i'm finding.

Edited August 9, 2022 by ptxyz

[SwampNut]

I had a terrible night of sleep, woke up with two neurons working, and read this while waiting for coffee.  I read it as "New pool Tuesday."  In my defense, you HAVE been doing things to the yard.  "Shit, he dug and poured a pool while making the shop foundation?  Will it be ready for NeXXt?  At least he got a heater.  Wait, that heater won't do shit."

 

Anyway, cool idea.

 

[blackhawkxx]

Thanks for the fun read Joe, I always enjoy them.  Have always wondered about induction heaters, if they really work, looks like it might be good to have as a backup.  I bet if Oscar (SuperHawk) had to work on Pa vehicles, he would switch professions.   

[superhawk996]

1 minute ago, blackhawkxx said:

Thanks for the fun read Joe, I always enjoy them.  Have always wondered about induction heaters, if they really work, looks like it might be good to have as a backup.  I bet if Oscar (SuperHawk) had to work on Pa vehicles, he would switch professions.   

Nah, it'd be easy.  I could dump all my tools and just carry around my cutting torch and welder.  Bolts are stupid.

[rockmeupto125]

Can't be tight if it's a liquid.

[blackhawkxx]

After a while you can almost tell when to try to break it loose or just cut it off just my looking.  I had to cut a bottom shock bolt off my truck using a angle grinder and when it went through, the nut went flying across the garage and landed on a two folded tarps burning right through both.  Almost had to laugh, almost.

[XXitanium]

11 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said:

After 2 more 30 minutes treatments, the bolt continues to appear undisturbed, but there is some significant heat coming off it.  

...typo, or was it that much time? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

I'm watching a rerun of Lethal Weapon....

[Furbird]

Photo #1 is why I don't live north of I-20 or within 10 miles of saltwater.  All y'all Yankees need to MOVE.

[superhawk996]

3 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

After a while you can almost tell when to try to break it loose or just cut it off just my looking.  I had to cut a bottom shock bolt off my truck using a angle grinder and when it went through, the nut went flying across the garage and landed on a two folded tarps burning right through both.  Almost had to laugh, almost.

I can't tell you how many times I've loosened a bolt that "there's no way to loosen" without employing the fire wrench.  There's a bunch of stuff that can loosen a stuck bolt that many people don't try.  I've also had many that looked like there was nothing wrong and I had to drill/cut them, most commonly in aluminum or stainless.

[XXitanium]

9 hours ago, Furbird said:

Photo #1 is why I don't live north of I-20 or within 10 miles of saltwater.  All y'all Yankees need to MOVE.

...or outlaw salt on roads?

[rockmeupto125]

11 hours ago, XXitanium said:

...typo, or was it that much time? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Not a type, dumb fingers.  Edited and thanks for the proofread.  The unit will supposedly kick out on overheat, and directions (yes, I did read them) suggest a maximum of 120 second therapy sessions before allowing the unit to cool down.

 

7 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

I can't tell you how many times I've loosened a bolt that "there's no way to loosen" without employing the fire wrench.  There's a bunch of stuff that can loosen a stuck bolt that many people don't try.  I've also had many that looked like there was nothing wrong and I had to drill/cut them, most commonly in aluminum or stainless.

 

Same here, but the deciding factor to go big in this case was the rapidly deteriorating integrity of the bolt's drive face after multiple failed attempts to reef it off.  Incidental factors included accessability, lost time, and it was too physically hot to work outside for more than 15 minutes at a time.

[superhawk996]

Generally, there's no harm in using some heat, and having this non fire hot wrench it would be my go-to.  Those caliper mount bolts can be a bitch even without rust, I've used my 3/4" dr. impact on a few.

[jon haney]

12 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

I can't tell you how many times I've loosened a bolt that "there's no way to loosen" without employing the fire wrench.  There's a bunch of stuff that can loosen a stuck bolt that many people don't try.  I've also had many that looked like there was nothing wrong and I had to drill/cut them, most commonly in aluminum or stainless.

Aluminum, stainless, and brass are the sluts of the nut and bolt world.  They love to mingle.

[OMG]

The most effective thing to remove bolts is a heavy socket. How I know is from replacing Tbelts on Hondas, the crank bolt generally won't come loose with a 4' bar but with the heavy socket sold for that purpose it comes off with a 1/2' impact, it weighs 3 pounds or so it seems. The auto body son swears by heavy sockets.

I don't understand the physics but it works.

Heating the bolt worked because it changed the threadlock , heating the bolt would expand it making it a tighter fit.

[Furbird]

Torch was always "last option" at the dealership.  We used a BG product called "InForce" that worked almost all of the time, basically PB Blaster on crack.  A penetrating oil that worked rapidly, even on extremely hot surfaces.  We also had a product called Rost Off Max Ice that was a mixture of a penetrating oil and a freeze spray, so if it was REALLY stubborn they would use that on the bolt.  If they got the torch out, it was all bets were off.  Most of our chemicals were so good we only used a tank of acetylene and oxygen every couple of years.  Granted, we didn't see a lot of rusty vehicles but when we did that's because they were trade-ins, travelers, or full-time beach residents.  Didn't bother me though because rust buckets would come in with a cat code and the tech would say...

"Price everything from the manifold studs at the head to the exhaust tips."

[rockmeupto125]

I think geography plays a big part in how bolts get seized up.  Granted, they all have the same threadlocker on them from the factory.  Fur uses BG products and I still have some on the shelf, good stuff. But rust is a whole different ball game combined with salt and multiple heat cycles. 

 

Heating the bolt melts the threadlocker.  It also heats the surrounding material, which then also expands.  Net result is a larger gap, and a better chance of removing the bolt.

[superhawk996]

8 hours ago, OMG said:

The most effective thing to remove bolts is a heavy socket. How I know is from replacing Tbelts on Hondas, the crank bolt generally won't come loose with a 4' bar but with the heavy socket sold for that purpose it comes off with a 1/2' impact, it weighs 3 pounds or so it seems. The auto body son swears by heavy sockets.

I don't understand the physics but it works.

Heating the bolt worked because it changed the threadlock , heating the bolt would expand it making it a tighter fit.

I woulda sworn that heavy socket thing was bullshit, but I just watched a test of several sockets and indeed the heavy one won by a landslide.  It seems backwards, I would have thought that a heavier socket would absorb more impact energy but somehow it transfers the energy better.  When my 1/2" gun won't accomplish a task I grab the 3/4".  On the extremely rare occasion that it can't pull off the job, the 1" comes out.  If that fails the car should be lit on fire to loosen everything up.

[CALCXX]

Never heard of Inforce. Sounds like something I should have around.

All I know as penetrating oil is Liquid Wrench. 

[superhawk996]

Never heard of it either.  Project Farm on YT did a test of penetrants and I'm pretty sure Sea Foam's Deep Creep came out on top.  I was a bit shocked because it's pretty thick stuff and I assumed that something with low viscosity would do better.

[CALCXX]

I'm listening, with or without heat? Permetex made a good thread penerator decades ago that worked well with heat. Dad used it more than I did. Fwiw, I generally use the 4in weld beautifier before the hot wrench.

[superhawk996]

Heat seems to draw the lube in, maybe just because it thins the lube, and/or it draws the lube in as the parts cool.  But you don't want the parts so hot that they cook the oil.  I have two transmission to engine bolts soaking in Deep Creep after warming the engine up, today I'll find out if it helped.

[blackhawkxx]

On 9/9/2022 at 10:15 AM, superhawk996 said:

Never heard of it either.  Project Farm on YT did a test of penetrants and I'm pretty sure Sea Foam's Deep Creep came out on top.  I was a bit shocked because it's pretty thick stuff and I assumed that something with low viscosity would do better.

Not very cheap at about $19 for 12oz but it works way better, maybe.

[SwampNut]

4 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

Not very cheap at about $19 for 12oz but it works way better, maybe.

 

I've bought a couple of insanely expensive lubes, but then I use so little, that over the long run it doesn't matter.  I got a bottle of some magic that is the size of two thumbs for $30, because it was recommended by someone who should know.  Really awesome.  I still have it ten years later, the usage is a few drops each time.