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Hurricane did not start


XXitanium
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How much juice does it take to turn a Honda 1000cc motor's starter?

 

The Hurricane did not start earlier this month.

 

Went to help son no. 1 move back to southern WI.

 

We stayed with no.3 and picked it up.

 

I tried some rudimentary diagnostics. The battery, charged as I understand, was at 10.5V, that's too low, but the solenoid should at least click?T he horn was very faint when I pushed the button. The headlight was dim.

 

He had been riding it. He stopped, parked it, came back and got this no-start. As I understand it he pushed it a mile to his house after that.

 

First, trythe smart charger...

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Get a car battery.  Replace or jump in parallel.  If a car battery won’t make it crank, it’s more than just the battery.  Motorcycle batteries are too low a CCA to really tell if you have a bad starter or electrical flaw compared to just a weak battery.

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3 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:

Get a car battery.  Replace or jump in parallel.  If a car battery won’t make it crank, it’s more than just the battery.  Motorcycle batteries are too low a CCA to really tell if you have a bad starter or electrical flaw compared to just a weak battery.

Did you learn all that nonsense from YT or make it up yourself?

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10 hours ago, XXitanium said:

How much juice does it take to turn a Honda 1000cc motor's starter?

Not a lot, but more than most bike batteries can deliver starting from 10.5v.  As for the solenoid not clicking, if it was at 10.5 with the key on I'd expect it to click and probably try to turn.  10.5 with the key off means it dropped to an unknown voltage as soon as the key was turned on and could have easily been to low to click.

 

What happened implies that it stopped charging, unless he parked it with the key on or some accessory on.  It could be a battery failure, but it's rare for them to do that.

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25 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

Did you learn all that nonsense from YT or make it up yourself?

 

Basic electrical knowledge.  Batteries in parallel don't increase voltage but increase amperage.  If you are questioning a weak battery or need to do long crank cycles that would wear down a motorcycle battery, switching out to a car battery or connecting one in parallel will do the job nicely.

 

Done it several times.

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There is no fucking way bike will start with battery showing 10.5v.

 

Just do basic trouble shooting, jump start the bike and check charging system.

 

Also, I understand that is potentially shocking, but follow on zero's advice

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28 minutes ago, Zero Knievel said:

 

Basic electrical knowledge.  Batteries in parallel don't increase voltage but increase amperage.  If you are questioning a weak battery or need to do long crank cycles that would wear down a motorcycle battery, switching out to a car battery or connecting one in parallel will do the job nicely.

 

Done it several times.

I've seen many instances of jumpers between two batteries and jumpers to empty battery leads not carrying enough power.  You said that would tell if it's just a battery problem or something else and it won't.  It might, and it might completely mislead you into thinking something that's not true.  Also, that thing about bike batteries not having enough cranking amps to diagnose stuff is complete bullshit.  Just because you can't doesn't make it a rule.

 

Can you possibly jump start something from a loose battery?  Yes, so it's worth a shot.  Can you use that method to definitively diagnose a problem?  No.  Could you do damage to the vehicle's system jumping to empty battery leads?  Yes, tho rare.  Could you be horribly mislead by relying on that method to diagnose stuff?  Yup.  Have I seen all the above?  Many times.  Has someone using that method led to me getting free/cheap vehicles that only had a dead battery or other very minor problem?  Yup yup!

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I've been unable to find pics of the aftermath, but a friend had his moto battery explode when he jumped it from a car battery.  Not like a nuke or anything, but the bike had acid everywhere and we had to pry the expanded plastic case from the bike.  No human carnage at least.  Do not recommend.

 

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2 hours ago, SwampNut said:

I've been unable to find pics of the aftermath, but a friend had his moto battery explode when he jumped it from a car battery.  Not like a nuke or anything, but the bike had acid everywhere and we had to pry the expanded plastic case from the bike.  No human carnage at least.  Do not recommend.

 

Did he connect properly?  I'm confident that if you connected in series it would be bad.

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11 minutes ago, Zero Knievel said:

I'm confident that if you connected in series it would be bad.

 

Me too.  It would be nearly impossible to do that, of course, but definitely bad for the bike.  Probably wouldn't blow up the battery like it did.

 

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1 hour ago, SwampNut said:

 

Me too.  It would be nearly impossible to do that, of course, but definitely bad for the bike.  Probably wouldn't blow up the battery like it did.

 

I've jump started a motorcycle with a car battery (not mounted in a car), but the bike battery still had 12 volts (barely) with no load, and I only touched the clamp to the positive terminal long enough to start the bike.  Like 5 seconds.

If the bike battery had a very low charge (like 6 volts), I could see it being similar to putting a 50 amp charger on the thing.  Boom!

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1 hour ago, Zero Knievel said:

 

Did he connect properly?  I'm confident that if you connected in series it would be bad.

It would take a special amount of dedication to being stupid to pull that off and it would only damage the bike, not the battery.  Connected backwards is my guess, but there's a few possible ways to pop the battery.

 

And before you start arguing: to get them in series one of the bike's cables would have to be off of battery and connected to one jumper clamp, the other jumper clamp connected to the empty battery terminal, and in the right polarity.  The battery voltage wouldn't double, only the voltage delivered to the bike's system would double.

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6 minutes ago, jon haney said:

If the bike battery had a very low charge (like 6 volts), I could see it being similar to putting a 50 amp charger on the thing.  Boom!

It's very different and extremely unlikely to pop the low battery because the car battery would be delivering just over 12v and unable to pass a really high current.  Chargers push much higher voltage allowing for a higher current flow.  With the car running then the chances of a high current flow greatly increase.

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13 minutes ago, jon haney said:

I've jump started a motorcycle with a car battery

 

Same, but I won't any more.  Many things are perfectly fine up until they're not.

 

And yeah, I think it was a matter of dumping too much current in.  Definitely not connected wrong.  I'm glad I was on the car battery end of hooking it up, my pants stayed cleaner than his.

 

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I'd like to point it is possible to bump start carbed inline 4 bike.

 

Excellent exercise, certainly beats walking the bike for couple of miles.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, tomek said:

I'd like to point it is possible to bump start carbed inline 4 bike.

 

Excellent exercise, certainly beats walking the bike for couple of miles.

 

 

I had that thought to and let it go since it was already home, but yes, good for him to know in case it happens again.

It'll work with EFI also, but depending on the battery's condition it might take more effort.

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14 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

 

It'll work with EFI also, but depending on the battery's condition it might take more effort.

Depends on the bike, blackbird- maybe. Something like crossplain R1 of vfr1200f- forgetaboutit. Don't even try it.

 

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16 minutes ago, tomek said:

Depends on the bike, blackbird- maybe. Something like crossplain R1 of vfr1200f- forgetaboutit. Don't even try it.

 

What makes those bikes any different?  I've roll started lots of EFI cars and bikes.

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I'm taking about bump start, not roll start. Not the same.

 

Bump start, you and maybe someone else pushing the bike from the back on flat terrain.

 

If you manage to bump start my vfr or r1 on flat ground I'll give you a 1000$. With fully charged batteries. Won't happen. 

 

High compression ratio, light flywheel, strong engine braking, uneven( v4 or crossplain) firing order and slipper clutch. 

 

You won't be able to bump start any of those two unless you are faster than Usain Bolt.  

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, tomek said:

I'd like to point it is possible to bump start carbed inline 4 bike.

My son and I have both pushed started this bike. He didn't explain why it didn't work the last time it was a very hot day in Milwaukee.

 

I have a charger with the engine start feature it pushes 85 amps. The bike did try to start a little bit. But not a real healthy starter noise. I put the trickle charger on it tried it at noon it went a little more. Now after work I got it to go. The testing panel on the charger says 12.7 amps, charger off, no load 

 

 

Edited by XXitanium
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