20 Extra Horsepower!!

[MontanaXX]

So the 20 new hp wasn't realized, so you going to keep those new cans on your bike?

[DrDyno]

Eric,

As outrageous as 20 HP seemed to most of us, the can's inventor seemed too confident for the shortfall you realized.

Is it possible that your custom specs (16" cans & extra-long head pipe) affected the results 10-16 HP?

I was really rootin' for you!

[XXSTAR]

I could not afford them if they made 50 more hp, but I sure was hoping it would make 20 hp, Ron

[EVLXX]

It looks like the primary changes were to the hp and torque curves rather than any large overall increase in numbers.

Yes, the new curves feel alot smoother that the stock set-up. I can definately feel the increase at 5K.

I'm seeing 8 ish HP at 11K and ya got rid of the torque drop off at 5-6K. An improvement deffinately, but worth it vs say an Akra system?

BTW your stock run looks almost identicle to mine!

Yes and no... yes because I love the way they look, but no because of overall hp increase.

So on Paper at least you only gained 3.8HP and 1.5lb from the pipes...

It is just me or does that seem SLIGHTLY off the 20HP

I don't think there's any slightly about it, and comparing the curves from my reports to the ones on the web page, leads me to believe more of what Joe said before. That it probably has more to due with the way his dyno was set-up and calibrated for the correction factors.

So the 20 new hp wasn't realized, so you going to keep those new cans on your bike?

Yes. As I said above... there's more to them for me, than just the HP numbers, so far that I'm happy with them.

Eric,

As outrageous as 20 HP seemed to most of us, the can's inventor seemed too confident for the shortfall you realized.

Is it possible that your custom specs (16" cans & extra-long head pipe) affected the results 10-16 HP?

I was really rootin' for you!

Yes Paul was very confident, and I'm sure he is going to be just as disapionted at seeing my results as I was.

I also think he still has something going there though, but he just doesn't have all the bugs worked out yet.

I mean, trying to make one system that will improve all of other variuos motor designs work, under all the various possible design differences is absolutly monumental.

Maybe after some time and some more product development he'll have it focused and have more of the variables accounted for.

Is it possible that my set-up affected the outcome? Absolutly.

And I think lots of poeple were rooting for the Cans. I also hope Paul continues to develope his system and makes it work to the best of it's ability.

...

With all that said...... Here's to Paul for trying! Good Job Man... keep it up !

...

See some of you at OzarXX.

Oh and here's another chart with just the stock bike vrs. the stock bike with the Urbane Can's without all the other lines where I was playing.

[tomek]

20 hp,my ass,,,,,,,,,

[Furious]

Damn it, Eric, I was really pulling for you on this one.

Cheers to you for going out on a limb and trying something new!

[shovelstrokeed]

I actually see quite a bit of potential in those dyno curves and I can understand why they feel so much better.

Two significant points. First, the hole at 5K RPM is really plugged, gotta make a difference in roll on feel.

Second and probably of more importance, note the lack of fall off at the high rpm points. There is something going on here, just the system length doesn't seem to be optimized for this bike's cam timing. Peak power isn't everything, the area under the curve is what counts. These pipes should allow a pretty good over-rev and when running WFO should provide a nice performance increase over the stockers.

I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. A little playing with pipe diameters and lengths might see quite a bit more increase.

[BDAZ XX]

When something is to good to be true, it usually is!

With just my Renegade high pipe slipons and a PCII I pulled 140rwhp.

[Para045]

I actually see quite a bit of potential in those dyno curves and I can understand why they feel so much better.

Two significant points. First, the hole at 5K RPM is really plugged, gotta make a difference in roll on feel.

Plus a bit more between 3-4k :icon_think:

[EVLXX]

I actually see quite a bit of potential in those dyno curves and I can understand why they feel so much better.

Two significant points. First, the hole at 5K RPM is really plugged, gotta make a difference in roll on feel.

Second and probably of more importance, note the lack of fall off at the high rpm points. There is something going on here, just the system length doesn't seem to be optimized for this bike's cam timing. Peak power isn't everything, the area under the curve is what counts. These pipes should allow a pretty good over-rev and when running WFO should provide a nice performance increase over the stockers.

I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. A little playing with pipe diameters and lengths might see quite a bit more increase.

I went to bed last night and couldn't stop thinking the same thing.

While they didn't give the overall 20 hp. There's a lot more torque from 3-4K, the 5K flat spot is more than just gone, it actually builds more power there, and yes it does not start falling off at 9.8K anymore, it now pulls to 10.2K.

So because my inquirering mind would like to know.... Why don't you guys that have done Dyno pulls post up a picture of your print outs.

I would love to compare there curves to these. Especially since alot of you have stated you got the same or more with a set of Slip-ons and a PC. (which would also mean it took 2 devices and probably a custom map compared to this one)

Damn it, Eric, I was really pulling for you on this one.

Cheers to you for going out on a limb and trying something new!

Thanks Jake,

But don't feel bad for me... I don't, I'm actually very happy with the overall results, the look, the sound, and the power.

It's all good ! .......... just the power is not as Great as everyone was hoping for.

[beondwacko]

As per your request Eric , I have a dyno chart of my bike stock w/D&D's and no PCIII. I can't find my other chart but I can tell you this, It's significantly different. I now with the PCIII do not have the severe drop off in power after 9K rpm. If I can find the newer chart , I'll post it for you.

BTW, On my last dyno run with TBR Ti slip on's , K&N, and a PCIII with custom map made 142 HP and 83FT/LBS on my bike.

[EVLXX]

Thanks.

Any more out there ? Hopefully on a Dynojet Dyno.

[DrDyno]

As per your request Eric , I have a dyno chart of my bike stock w/D&D's and no PCIII. I can't find my other chart but I can tell you this, It's significantly different. I now with the PCIII do not have the severe drop off in power after 9K rpm. If I can find the newer chart , I'll post it for you.

BTW, On my last dyno run with TBR Ti slip on's , K&N, and a PCIII with custom map made 142 HP and 83FT/LBS on my bike.

There is a HUGE difference between beondwacko & EvilXX's (no PCIII) Dyno charts... almost to the point of two different engine designs.

Compare the HP from 8K to 10K!

Compare the Torque from 9K to 10K!!

You'd have to ride both to see which you'd prefer but it looks to me like beondwacko's midrange is a lot stronger but EvilXX would definitely run away from him on top end.

Given that the dyno charts are for comparably equipped (no PCIII) FI Blackbirds and so different, one has got to consider all of the other variables that come into play on a dyno run... everything from the dyno, itself, and the dyno operator... right down to how well the valves are adjusted, how new are the spark plugs and... my personal favorite (which may have no bearing on any of it) whether or not the PAIR nozzle in the airbox is blocked off.

Bottom line may be: Dyno charts camparing different runs on differnt dynos with different bikes may have very little value as compared to multiple dyno runs on the same dyno comparing engine modifications to the same bike.

[The Krypt Keeper]

My bike bone stock made 131 HP on a Dyno Jet Dyno at 600 ft elevation, 80 deg. Temp, and humidity in the 80's I would have the printout but it didn't make the 3hr ride home in the pouring rain. I did however get a nice wad of blank paper though..

Have yet to get it done up with my Leo Vince pipes, and PCIII USB

My map in my PCIII is setup for 2 Brother pipes as I couldn't find a Leo Vince one. I would like to get my map dyno tuned.

Can tell you my bike woke up after adding in the map and plugged it into my bike. Throttle response is wicked nasty.

Ask Matt. Mrbad how he liked my setup. He got to ride it last year playing around.

[XXTi]

I'll post my dyno run chart this evening.

[DrDyno]

Thanks.

Any more out there ? Hopefully on a Dynojet Dyno.

Following are four Dyno runs I picked off the internet with a Google Image search using "Blackbird Dyno." As you'll see, there are considerable differences between them.

[EVLXX]

Thanks.

Any more out there ? Hopefully on a Dynojet Dyno.

Following are four Dyno runs I picked off the internet with a Google Image search using "Blackbird Dyno." As you'll see, there are considerable differences between them.

I think it's verey interesting that all of those Dyno reports show the 5K dip, and on mine it's gone.

Could it be that the equal lenght head-pipe and mid-pipe on my bike is canceling out the wave pulses... or heavin forbid.. Paul's design may actually be working.

Very interesting.

I also wish I new what those abreviations ment on that second chart... then maybe one could understand the high numbers.

Ecited: Found it... it says "02 Fuel injected Bird. K&N filter, full akky system 4 into 2 and Power Commander 3. Custom map my PDQ. Bike put out over 151 at the wheel."

[EVLXX]

Found this one... it's a Ti-Force Dyno Run chart...

www.tiforce.com/tiforce/cbr1100xx.htm

[DrDyno]

Found this one... it's a Ti-Force Dyno Run chart...

www.tiforce.com/tiforce/cbr1100xx.htm

Eric,

The Ti Force also flattened out the torque curve in the 5k range... interesting!

And... who's to say there isn't a little hanky-panky on the part of the manufacturers just before their runs to be sure their products look the best they possibly can... new plugs, filters, etc.? I'd bet you could pick up 1-HP just by lubing a dry chain!

Jeez... we could drive ourselves crazy with this stuff!!!

[Ronnie]

WHat did Bognor Paul have to say about the results?

[EVLXX]

Found this one... it's a Ti-Force Dyno Run chart...

www.tiforce.com/tiforce/cbr1100xx.htm

Eric,

The Ti Force also flattened out the torque curve in the 5k range... interesting!

And... who's to say there isn't a little hanky-panky on the part of the manufacturers just before their runs to be sure their products look the best they possibly can... new plugs, filters, etc.? I'd bet you could pick up 1-HP just by lubing a dry chain!

Jeez... we could drive ourselves crazy with this stuff!!!

So true....... and as we all know there is variance from one Dyno to another, plus the human error factor.

The more I read and research, the better and better I'm feeling about my results.

WHat did Bognor Paul have to say about the results?

I haven't e-mailed him yet. I was guessing he be watching this....

... and I'm also sure he's a busy man. I'll catch up with him sometime here soon, but it may not be until next week, after the meet.

[XXSTAR]

I will try to post my dyno, 1999 erion slip-on k&n filter, PC-111

[XXTi]

Here are copies of my dyno runs. The runs are the before and after installation of a PCII. I'm running Two Bros. slip-ons and a K&N filter. My PAIR system was hooked up during these runs.

[lexxus]

Just curious,was there another member here sent a pair of cans to test also? maybe i miss read.

I see nothing wrong with what paul was tring to do. he did send atleast one set of can's to be tested.

thanks for tring eric, maybe with some more tinkering you may get what we've hoped to get.

[danzig69]

the gearing slightly affect the result : http://sportrider.com/tech/146_0406_motorcycle_dyno04_z.jpg

the tire slightly affect the number : http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0406_mo...le_dyno03_z.jpg

the weather, temperature, humidity, oil, air filter, spark plug, valve, chain lubrification affect the result. And the bigest thing affecting the result is the dyno and is operator.

"Our TL1000R test unit (June 2000) measured 102.1 horsepower on a Factory Pro eddy current dyno, and 118.9 horsepower on a Dynojet inertia dyno. According to Salvisberg, Factory Pro eddy current dynos read 14 to 15 percent lower than say, a Dynojet inertia dynamometer in the 90 to 100 horsepower range, with even more difference at higher power levels."

Source: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0102_dyno/

The same bike on 2 different dyno. It's not the first time I read an article that had big difference.

We can't compare the HP number of our bike because they were not tested on the same dyno. As I look at your (EVLXX) dyno sheet, there is a 4 ft-lbs (8%) difference in torque between 5000 to 6300 RPM range and you never loose anywhere on the graph. This is for me a good thing because I like to play in this area. But how does it cost to gain some torque and a good sound. The sound can make use feel that the bike is pulling harder but is it just making more sound? Lift you tv from the ground to your head without doing noise and do the same will crying. Are you stronger because your making noise?

Thanks for trying and sharing your experience EVLXX but your bike was not stock. You have a longer head pipe. If it was really stock, will you get the famous 20hp?? oufff