fizzy Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) Pulled my 1997 BB clutch apart to free sticking plates. Noticed that the "clutch center clip" is missing, part number 13 below. This part was deleted on FI models, among a few other changes to the clutch. Question, what does this part do? Is it important that I install a new one? According to the manual they are one time use only? Other than sticking, clutch seems ok. P/N: CLIP, CLUTCH CENTER 22431MAT000 https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/main/img/assemblies/large/d71f7bbe6366ad6e87e82b7b26f4b3c3.png?6 Edited August 21 by fizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 You can't deep-link to that image. Here's a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 Thanks. What did I do wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 10 minutes ago, fizzy said: Thanks. What did I do wrong? Nothing that would be obvious if you don't work in tech and web services. You linked to the image, but the site has protection against that. They don't want you "stealing" the resource of serving embedded images. I did this... Then pasted the actual image here, not the link. So now it's served directly from our forum server, not the original link server. That part is curious. Some sort of plate separator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) Fizzy, that is called a "anti-judder spring". It's supposed to make the clutch engagement smoother at higher RPM (hard launch). Stock Suzuki GS models (I think) had something similar. Unless you're wanting to drag race, should be able to live without it. My 99 did not want to launch over 3500 RPM without "grabbing and bucking" (Judder). I had Brock Davidson make me a prototype of his clutch cushion that he was selling for the Hayabusa. Worked like a charm. There is an old thread in here where I tried to do a group bye for these, because Brock wouldn't make more unless he got an order for 5 minimum. All but one member backed out, so it didn't happen. Edited August 21 by jon haney 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 16 minutes ago, SwampNut said: Nothing that would be obvious if you don't work in tech and web services. You linked to the image, but the site has protection against that. They don't want you "stealing" the resource of serving embedded images. I did this... Then pasted the actual image here, not the link. So now it's served directly from our forum server, not the original link server. That part is curious. Some sort of plate separator? I just edited original post, attempting to follow your suggestion. See result. Anyhow, thanks for the assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 5 hours ago, jon haney said: Fizzy, that is called a "anti-judder spring". It's supposed to make the clutch engagement smoother at higher RPM (hard launch). Stock Suzuki GS models (I think) had something similar. Unless you're wanting to drag race, should be able to live without it. My 99 did not want to launch over 3500 RPM without "grabbing and bucking" (Judder). I had Brock Davidson make me a prototype of his clutch cushion that he was selling for the Hayabusa. Worked like a charm. There is an old thread in here where I tried to do a group bye for these, because Brock wouldn't make more unless he got an order for 5 minimum. All but one member backed out, so it didn't happen. Ok, thanks for the info. Based on that, I am not going to worry about it being left off. I don't see drag racing in this machine's future. 🍺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 But why are your plates sticking, has it been sitting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted August 23 Author Share Posted August 23 On 8/22/2024 at 11:24 AM, blackhawkxx said: But why are your plates sticking, has it been sitting? Sitting 1 year. Project bike. Really needs to be ridden but not ready yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 I've had bikes that sat for decades and the clutches unstuck without a teardown. Something don't seem right if you had to open it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Just put the bitch in the gear, pull in the clutch, rock it back and forth and clutch should free up right away. I'm with super hawk in this. Reminds me my friend and his old Mustang 5.0. The thing sat on his driveway for 2-3 years. He just stopped driving it. Decided to sell it but the starter would not turn the engine. He came to conclusion moisture in the engine, etc. and it just locked up. I said "I don't think so". It was manual. I put it in the gear, like 3rd, back and forth couple times. It fired right up. He was amazed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 2 hours ago, superhawk996 said: I've had bikes that sat for decades and the clutches unstuck without a teardown. Something don't seem right if you had to open it up. Must be a bad choice on oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 About 2 months ago, I rigged the engine to see if it would run. On wheeling it outside I noticed the clutch was stuck. Tries to free it by rocking in 1st gear. No go. Got her running, slammed into 1st gear, clutch freed up ok. 2 weeks ago, went to move bike, clutch stuck again and couldn't rock it free. Decided to pull cover to check for wear and clean plates. Not worn at all really, but I did clean the steel plates with steel wool and acetone. All ok now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 3 minutes ago, fizzy said: steel wool and acetone Very professional. But now actually seriously, what oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted August 24 Author Share Posted August 24 1 hour ago, SwampNut said: Very professional. But now actually seriously, what oil? Don't know. It was in this project bike engine when I acquired it. Looks clean. I will replace it after a full shakedown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 I've been a long time fan of Diesel oil for bikes, but both of my '97 Birds were clunky with it. Castrol 10-40 motorcycle spec oil was better. My current '97 seems to be more picky than the first, maybe because of the cable actuated clutch. I put in Motul 300V 10-40, it's painfully expensive, but the clutch and shifting smoothness was night and day. I think about shifting and it's already in the next gear, and finding neutral is a no-brainer. More surprising was that the clunk from neutral to first damn near vanished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 6 hours ago, superhawk996 said: I've been a long time fan of Diesel oil for bikes, but both of my '97 Birds were clunky with it. Castrol 10-40 motorcycle spec oil was better. My current '97 seems to be more picky than the first, maybe because of the cable actuated clutch. I put in Motul 300V 10-40, it's painfully expensive, but the clutch and shifting smoothness was night and day. I think about shifting and it's already in the next gear, and finding neutral is a no-brainer. More surprising was that the clunk from neutral to first damn near vanished. Oh, no, no, no. This is a clutch thread. 🍺 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 No, you just think it's a clutch thread because of the symptom, but it's actually an oil thread because that's what caused it. Or maybe it's a parked motorcycle thread because that's what caused it? Could be an astrology thread; what's your sign and what month did you park it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 14 hours ago, superhawk996 said: I've been a long time fan of Diesel oil for bikes, but both of my '97 Birds were clunky with it. Castrol 10-40 motorcycle spec oil was better. My current '97 seems to be more picky than the first, maybe because of the cable actuated clutch. I put in Motul 300V 10-40, it's painfully expensive, but the clutch and shifting smoothness was night and day. I think about shifting and it's already in the next gear, and finding neutral is a no-brainer. More surprising was that the clunk from neutral to first damn near vanished. Technically some Shell rotallas do carry JASO wet clutch specs, but I'm actually with you on that. I think car and diesel oils are now very far from what motorcycles need, and simply tranny/clutch work much better on bike spec'd oils. Days you could throw some car/diesel oil on the bike, and could not tell the difference are over. I use either bike specific Mobil 1, or Maxima triple ester racing oil. Chaparral usually has good price on latter, free shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Well, since some dickhead turned this into an oil thread: Automotive gas and diesel oils have gone through many changes, some were bad. The latest gas spec is SP and some diesel oils also meet the SP spec. They removed, or greatly reduced, some important stuff and I was initially afraid of it, but it appears to actually be superior to the previous spec. The zinc has been low in oils for quite some time, but with the SP formulation the zinc is now more effective. One of the removed/reduced components tends to 'fight' with zinc, pretty sure it's a cleaner or dispersant. The anti-friction additives were also modified and appear to be better as well. This is probably the only time they've changed the formulation to be better for old and new engines. If you're concerned with cleanliness, Valvoline's "Restore and Protect" appears to be good stuff. They used to have a more aggressive formula that would clean much faster, but that lead to problems with some really dirty engines. The new one is a slow gentle cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 1 hour ago, superhawk996 said: Well, since some dickhead turned this into an oil thread: Automotive gas and diesel oils have gone through many changes, some were bad. The latest gas spec is SP and some diesel oils also meet the SP spec. They removed, or greatly reduced, some important stuff and I was initially afraid of it, but it appears to actually be superior to the previous spec. The zinc has been low in oils for quite some time, but with the SP formulation the zinc is now more effective. One of the removed/reduced components tends to 'fight' with zinc, pretty sure it's a cleaner or dispersant. The anti-friction additives were also modified and appear to be better as well. This is probably the only time they've changed the formulation to be better for old and new engines. If you're concerned with cleanliness, Valvoline's "Restore and Protect" appears to be good stuff. They used to have a more aggressive formula that would clean much faster, but that lead to problems with some really dirty engines. The new one is a slow gentle cleaner. Have any of us known anyone with camshaft issues on their older bikes from modern oils? I haven't but have with aftermarket camshafts in cars. I'm still running the car Mobil 1 15w-50 that you guys started me on decades ago. No issues yet but maybe any day now? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 14 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said: Have any of us known anyone with camshaft issues on their older bikes from modern oils? I haven't but have with aftermarket camshafts in cars. I'm still running the car Mobil 1 15w-50 that you guys started me on decades ago. No issues yet but maybe any day now? 😉 I've never experienced or known of a cam failure on anything. The M1 15-50 used to be a fairly high zinc oil and clutch safe. It might still be clutch safe, but it's now an SP oil so not high zinc, but it 'should' be fine. I'm guessing it hasn't been high zinc for a very long time, I think it should be better now that the zinc doesn't have to fight with the other additive. If you wanna do some learning and you enjoy videos, try Lake Speed Jr. (AKA the motor oil geek) on YT. He's a tribologist and mega gear head and does shit tons of oil testing with dynos and lab equipment. He probably has a few aimed at flat tappet cams, or just search for what he's found using SP oils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 7 hours ago, superhawk996 said: If you wanna do some learning and you enjoy videos, try Lake Speed Jr. (AKA the motor oil geek) on YT. He's a tribologist and mega gear head and does shit tons of oil testing with dynos and lab equipment. He probably has a few aimed at flat tappet cams, or just search for what he's found using SP oils. Don't he have his own brand of oils, is it Driven? I had one after market flat tappet cam go flat on me but I wasn't using the high zinc oil. I am now. It seems to be a common problem from the car shows I watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 3 hours ago, blackhawkxx said: Don't he have his own brand of oils, is it Driven? Yup. And he's shown a few tests with it, but does a lot more testing with other oils from boutique stuff to generics like Supertech and the Amazon stuff. Break-in is when zinc is really important, after that the importance depends on how much spring pressure you have and the RPM you run. Zinc tends to increase friction but it reduces wear, particularly in high pressure areas. Almost all of my flat tappet engines have been run on 15-40 for the last 20-ish years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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