jon haney Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Furbird, this is a good one for your Nissan friends. 2017 Nissan Frontier Pro 4X with manual transmission: Cruise control will not stay set over 65 MPH indicated, but only in 6th gear. In 5th gear, it works up to at least 90. Sometimes I can get it to set for a few seconds between 65 and 70, but kicks off as soon as I hit the slightest bump. The problem started after I rebuilt the rear end. I figured I might have damaged one of the wheel speed sensors, but if so, why does it work in 5th? Sensors look fine. Antilock brakes, and traction control seem unaffected. Anyone have an idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I know CC kicks off if there isn’t enough torque to maintain speed. 6th is usually an overdrive gear. How did it perform before the work was done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Did you change gear ratios? Please for the love of all that is Holy tell me you didn't change gear ratios... Story time. We had an AWD Rogue come in with a host of tranny issues. Warranty was denied because one tire had been replaced with the wrong size and the other three were correct. So, yeah, a bad sensor (or if you have no codes, possibly a cracked reluctor ring, BEEN THERE) can cause all kinds of weird shit to happen. I think you have codes that may not be triggering a light. Specifically it sounds like the output speed sensor from the transmission and the wheel speed sensor are not "seeing" the same numbers and the BCM is going "Negative Ghostrider" to your cruise commands. The reluctor ring drama (which technically was the flexplate) caused the crank sensor to shut the engine off at high rpm's because it only opened up and triggered the issue then. You know, when you were towing uphill, or passing somebody on a two-lane road and almost caused a head-on collision... you know, nothing important. AFTER they put a motor in and it KEPT doing it was when they discovered the hairline crack. BTW, that tech still has that flexplate as a reminder, as far as I know, and he's now a Master Technician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 3 hours ago, Zero Knievel said: I know CC kicks off if there isn’t enough torque to maintain speed. 6th is usually an overdrive gear. How did it perform before the work was done? Flawless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Furbird said: Did you change gear ratios? Please for the love of all that is Holy tell me you didn't change gear ratios... Story time. We had an AWD Rogue come in with a host of tranny issues. Warranty was denied because one tire had been replaced with the wrong size and the other three were correct. So, yeah, a bad sensor (or if you have no codes, possibly a cracked reluctor ring, BEEN THERE) can cause all kinds of weird shit to happen. I think you have codes that may not be triggering a light. Specifically it sounds like the output speed sensor from the transmission and the wheel speed sensor are not "seeing" the same numbers and the BCM is going "Negative Ghostrider" to your cruise commands. The reluctor ring drama (which technically was the flexplate) caused the crank sensor to shut the engine off at high rpm's because it only opened up and triggered the issue then. You know, when you were towing uphill, or passing somebody on a two-lane road and almost caused a head-on collision... you know, nothing important. AFTER they put a motor in and it KEPT doing it was when they discovered the hairline crack. BTW, that tech still has that flexplate as a reminder, as far as I know, and he's now a Master Technician. Yes, I did change gear ratio from 3.69 to 3.36. Yes, I changed the front axle as well. Put in a heavier Titan unit from the salvage yard. Yes, I visually verified the 3.36 ratio. Speed is picked up at the wheels, so speedo did not change, just RPM. Also have 4 new tires. So, you're saying the ECU is locked to the factory ratio? Not sure why they would do that, but seems I would be having more issues, if it was. None of the videos I watched mentioned computer problems changing ratio. Why only 6th gear? 🤔 Edited June 9 by jon haney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 7 hours ago, jon haney said: Why only 6th gear? 🤔 Maybe it affects all gears but the overdrive ratio is the one that makes it manifest easily? If it’s just the cruise control being affected, maybe it’s just enough added strain on the system that it disengages where before it handled it. I’ve not done mods to my drivetrain, but my truck wouldn’t maintain highways speeds while towing with cruise control if I was going up a moderate grade while in 5th (OD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 9 hours ago, jon haney said: Yes, I did change gear ratio from 3.69 to 3.36. Yes, I changed the front axle as well. Put in a heavier Titan unit from the salvage yard. Yes, I visually verified the 3.36 ratio. Speed is picked up at the wheels, so speedo did not change, just RPM. Also have 4 new tires. So, you're saying the ECU is locked to the factory ratio? Not sure why they would do that, but seems I would be having more issues, if it was. None of the videos I watched mentioned computer problems changing ratio. Why only 6th gear? 🤔 Now that we have the Paul Harvey version... ... we have Titan parts in a Frontier AND a gear ratio change. (#sarcasm in case you can't pick up on that as a lot of people on here CAN'T SEEM TO DO!!!) I can't help you. Neither can any of my Nissan tech guys. They absolutely will not do anything aftermarket unless it's Stillen or Nismo stuff (plug-and-play). I installed cruise controls back in the late 90's/early 00's but that all tied in to factory VSS signals or we strapped magnets onto driveshafts. Factory cruise controls vary in how they operate, and when you change gear ratios, 6th gear could "believe" that the wheels are spinning because of driveshaft speed compared to wheel speed due to the variance because you changed the ratios. Or that you are skidding (wheel speed is too slow compared to driveshaft speed.) I'm not saying that is 100% how it works, but since you changed all that and that is when it started, that is what it sounds like to me. Driveshaft speed vs wheel speed has changed and the computers are shutting down the cruise control. Fifth gear may still be within some factory variance but sixth is outside of that and it's preventing it. I had a single ABS sensor go out on my old Charger patrol car and it took out my cruise control. So a single failure when you have 20+ computers in a car can cause all kinds of havoc. I'm sure somebody has done this in a Frontier forum and has an easy fix for this. Probably something stupid like "use sensors out of a Versa" or something out of left field. Then again you might be fucked and have to go with a stand-alone cruise control and wrap the driveshaft like it's 1985. BTW, why did you go with highway gears in a 4X4? LOL gas mileage, that's what Prius' are for 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 9 hours ago, Furbird said: Now that we have the Paul Harvey version... ... we have Titan parts in a Frontier AND a gear ratio change. (#sarcasm in case you can't pick up on that as a lot of people on here CAN'T SEEM TO DO!!!) I can't help you. Neither can any of my Nissan tech guys. They absolutely will not do anything aftermarket unless it's Stillen or Nismo stuff (plug-and-play). I installed cruise controls back in the late 90's/early 00's but that all tied in to factory VSS signals or we strapped magnets onto driveshafts. Factory cruise controls vary in how they operate, and when you change gear ratios, 6th gear could "believe" that the wheels are spinning because of driveshaft speed compared to wheel speed due to the variance because you changed the ratios. Or that you are skidding (wheel speed is too slow compared to driveshaft speed.) I'm not saying that is 100% how it works, but since you changed all that and that is when it started, that is what it sounds like to me. Driveshaft speed vs wheel speed has changed and the computers are shutting down the cruise control. Fifth gear may still be within some factory variance but sixth is outside of that and it's preventing it. I had a single ABS sensor go out on my old Charger patrol car and it took out my cruise control. So a single failure when you have 20+ computers in a car can cause all kinds of havoc. I'm sure somebody has done this in a Frontier forum and has an easy fix for this. Probably something stupid like "use sensors out of a Versa" or something out of left field. Then again you might be fucked and have to go with a stand-alone cruise control and wrap the driveshaft like it's 1985. BTW, why did you go with highway gears in a 4X4? LOL gas mileage, that's what Prius' are for 😂 Why? I don't off-road much, so I put smaller, sportier tires on, and now RPM towing in 5th is fairly high. On rare occasion (big tailwind), I can pull in 6th. Was trying to lower RPM a little in 5th. Better gas mileage not towing is additional benefit. Front axle has no electrics, and neither does the driveshaft. Not sure about trans. I'm sure it's the wheel speed sensor(s), but they are $100 each aftermarket, and there is right and left. Which ever I buy, it will be the wrong one. Was hoping for more insight before spending $200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 CC most likely does not know what gear you are, but in 6th, and only in 6th, sees axles spinning faster ( in relation to engine rpm) vs. what it should be with 3.69 gears, so it concludes speed signal is wrong and cuts off. Me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 38 minutes ago, jon haney said: Why? I don't off-road much, so I put smaller, sportier tires on, and now RPM towing in 5th is fairly high. On rare occasion (big tailwind), I can pull in 6th. Was trying to lower RPM a little in 5th. Better gas mileage not towing is additional benefit. Front axle has no electrics, and neither does the driveshaft. Not sure about trans. I'm sure it's the wheel speed sensor(s), but they are $100 each aftermarket, and there is right and left. Which ever I buy, it will be the wrong one. Was hoping for more insight before spending $200. Towing in overdrive is a BAD IDEA. Period. Regardless of vehicle. I didn't LITERALLY mean a sensor on the driveshaft itself; output shaft sensor if I have to be exact. Regardless, one (or both) are telling the computer the diffs are going this speed and the wheels are telling it something else because the ratios are not right. I checked on the Titan forum and there is no fix for this (not the same truck, but still.) I couldn't find anybody specifically mentioning cruise issues on the Frontier forum. Sorry, brother. You threw the parts cannon at it, now you gotta throw the parts cannon at it again. Or get to scanning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, Furbird said: Towing in overdrive is a BAD IDEA. Period. Regardless of vehicle. You should contact, in alphabetical order, Freightliner, International, Kenworth, Mack, Peterbilt, Volvo and Western Star ASAP. They are clueless idiots. Because, typically, top two ratios on their transmissions are overdrive. Top gear on 13 speed is double overdrive. Lol. 13 speed ratios. Edited June 10 by tomek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 You do realize that tractor trailers are designed to do that, right? Consumer vehicles aren’t, and put any tractor trailer on an incline and see how much they need to downshift. OD gears are fine for level ground, downhill grades and minor elevations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 3 hours ago, Zero Knievel said: You do realize that tractor trailers are designed to do that, right? Consumer vehicles aren’t, and put any tractor trailer on an incline and see how much they need to downshift. OD gears are fine for level ground, downhill grades and minor elevations. You are an certified idiot. But please do share your tractor trailer experience with us. As for downshifts it depends. With 600 hp engine and relatively light load you can make Independence Pass in Colorado without downshifts, or maybe just one. But 12th or 17th gear (18 speed tranny) would still be overdrive. Edited June 10 by tomek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXX Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 4 hours ago, Zero Knievel said: You do realize that tractor trailers are designed to do that, right? Consumer vehicles aren’t, and put any tractor trailer on an incline and see how much they need to downshift. OD gears are fine for level ground, downhill grades and minor elevations. Yeah, Mike ……. We have ONE OTR trucker on the forum, and you try to “educate” him. That is silly. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, RXX said: Yeah, Mike ……. We have ONE OTR trucker on the forum, and you try to “educate” him. That is silly. Comparing the CC of a tractor trailer to a consumer vehicle is the point. Your car and truck is set to disengage rather than impose needless strain on the system. A tractor trailer’s system is going to be more robust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXX Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 minutes ago, Zero Knievel said: Comparing the CC of a tractor trailer to a consumer vehicle is the point. Your car and truck is set to disengage rather than impose needless strain on the system. A tractor trailer’s system is going to be more robust. Well thank you for making that clear the second time around. But I do not understand the concept of needless strain. Help me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 One of many nebulous terms that people using it will never define. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, Zero Knievel said: Comparing the CC of a tractor trailer to a consumer vehicle is the point. Your car and truck is set to disengage rather than impose needless strain on the system. A tractor trailer’s system is going to be more robust. Delusional,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 17 hours ago, Furbird said: Towing in overdrive is a BAD IDEA. Period. Regardless of vehicle. Well shit, I wish someone had told me that before I had towed tens of thousands of miles in OD. I guess I got super lucky that my crazy abuse hasn't blown anything up. Also, you should contact every manufacturer who programs their "tow mode" to allow OD...which I believe is all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Especially the ones that include instructions on exactly how to use/manage OD while towing. Idiots. The lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 On 6/8/2024 at 8:18 PM, jon haney said: Yes, I did change gear ratio from 3.69 to 3.36. Yes, I changed the front axle as well. Put in a heavier Titan unit from the salvage yard. Yes, I visually verified the 3.36 ratio. Speed is picked up at the wheels, so speedo did not change, just RPM. Also have 4 new tires. So, you're saying the ECU is locked to the factory ratio? Not sure why they would do that, but seems I would be having more issues, if it was. None of the videos I watched mentioned computer problems changing ratio. Why only 6th gear? 🤔 My guess is that the ECU, or other module, is seeing the "wrong" RPM to speed relationship now that you re-geared it, the ratio is most likely programmed into the ECU. It might only be upset about it in 6th and above 65 because the ratio change was fairly small and falls inside of the programmed tolerance, till you're in OD and going fast enough which then sends it outside of tolerance. It might eventually trigger the check engine light if you drive long enough. If you have a scanner check for pending faults, it might be there. There are a few stages of faults. Sometimes a fault will only lead to disabling a feature, there will be a stored fault code, but it may be within a module that your scanner can't look at. An 'advanced' scanner that can scan all of the vehicle's modules will show it. If it's advanced enough it can also change the ratio programming so that the truck's system will be happy again. I've scanned many vehicles that showed no faults on my basic scanner, then a laundry list of problems on the advanced one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 The loaner scanners at an auto parts store might be able to see the fault. They're not super advanced, but I'm pretty sure they are able to see ABS and traction control systems which might be where the code is hiding. Or it might be in the body control module, not sure if their scanners see it, but it's free so it's worth a shot. If you can verify that it's a speed relationship fault and not a bad sensor, then you'll know to invest your money into having a shop/dealer reprogram the truck's system instead of throwing parts at it. I strongly lean toward it being a programming issue and not a damaged sensor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, RXX said: Well thank you for making that clear the second time around. But I do not understand the concept of needless strain. Help me out. I'm not sure if making the CC try to hold speed when WOT still results on dropping MPH will "damage" the engine, transmission or CC system, but you aren't supposed to be using CC when the engine can't maintain speed. They are set to disengage if it can't maintain MPH within a given tolerance within so many seconds. Perhaps more to prevent driver stupidity...not that I think it works to that end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 40 minutes ago, Zero Knievel said: I'm not sure if making the CC try to hold speed when WOT still results on dropping MPH will "damage" the engine, transmission or CC system, but you aren't supposed to be using CC when the engine can't maintain speed. They are set to disengage if it can't maintain MPH within a given tolerance within so many seconds. Perhaps more to prevent driver stupidity...not that I think it works to that end. CC can't damage anything that your foot can't, and whether it can maintain speed or not won't change that. "you aren't supposed to be using CC when the engine can't maintain speed." Was that BS learned from a Scotty Kilmor video or created in your brain? Old cars with vacuum actuated CC loose speed under heavy load because the CC needs engine vacuum which drops at high load. Electrically actuated cruise won't care. I've never experienced an electric or electronic cruise control disengaging under a heavy load. I have had them disengage when the vehicle exceeds the set-point by XX amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, superhawk996 said: Was that BS learned from a Scotty Kilmor video or created in your brain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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