rockmeupto125 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 As I'm looking over my tool collections, needs, and wants for the new garage, I'm not finding the answer to a question that has surfaced in my small brain. I have quite a collection of old air powered tools that I used to use on a regular basis when I wrenched for money. Snap-On, Ingersol-Rand, Bluepoint branded impact guns, ratchets and such. I know that the engineering is dynamic, and new air tools continue to be produced and sold, so they must be doing something right. What I can't find with a google search (what CAN you find anymore with a google search except something for sale) is any comparison of old air tools vs new air tools. So those of you who may have used old tools, or you geriatrics who have upgraded, do you have any insights? Are new are tools that much more powerful than the vintage ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 The new battery powered tools that make air obsolete are indeed much more powerful. Sorry, not what you asked but that's the first thing that hit me about this, and also I need to just finally empty those drawers of air things that have not been touched in five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I'm in the market for a decent air DA sander and maybe an air file, if anybody is taking one or both out to the garbage anytime soon. I agree that battery is the way of the future, but as of this moment they tend to be bulky in comparison to traditional air tools. The air machines may be as heavy, but they're in a more compact package and don't seem as unwieldy to me. Maybe I'm not looking at the right brands of battery tools... change my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I haven't had call to use a DA sander for anything in a long time, so I have no familiarity with newer ones. The air model uses a ludicrous amount of air, which I think you have, but FYI. It's also so insanely noisy, and the air blows the shit around so much. I also don't see a purpose for battery sanders, but again, everything I do is with one high end random orbital and that has far less power than most DA. The one clear winner that I know of with air is nailers and staplers. The battery ones are insanely huge and expensive, air models are tiny, cheap, and light. I've wanted to get set up to use them in the wood shop, to set up projects during assembly (just a temporary hold). But I haven't, and after saying this for five years, they need to just go. I've found other ways to do it. All of this needs to go. I think I also have a manifold and poly tubing setup sitting around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, SwampNut said: The new battery powered tools that make air obsolete are indeed much more powerful. Sorry, not what you asked but that's the first thing that hit me about this, and also I need to just finally empty those drawers of air things that have not been touched in five years. Literally days away from tossing my massive (and almost new) Craftsman 33 Gallon Air Compressor. All battery now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 Not what I asked, but no problem with sparking (hah!) a tool discussion! I sense a discussion similar to the ICE vs EV chats, hopefully not deteriorating. I've invested an obscene amount in cordless tools and batteries that have no essential residual battle. As a matter of fact, it's an investment just trying to properly dispose of one of these giant battery packs. Over the years I've accumulated 12, 18, 20, 36, and 40 volt tools and batteries. Central Electric from Harbor Fright, Dewalt, Kobalt, plus Earthquake and Bauer brands again both from Harbor Fright. Quickly ticking them off in my head I'm coming up with somewhere near $2500 spent on batteries. And $3000 in tools including impact guns, ratchets, staple guns, drills, air compressors, lights, grease guns, chain saws, blowers, lawnmowers, sprayers, etc. As a comparison, I probably have spent between $1000 and $1500 on air tools over a much longer period of time. Those include impact guns, ratchets, butterflies, chisels, hammers, drills, sanders, blowguns, grease guns, etc. I know I included lawn equipment under electric, but I am not including tire machine or blast cabinet under this category of air tools. A compressor is a central element of an air tool system, but I have spent less than $100 on the compressors that run my air tools in over 50 years of using them, which is pretty comical. I'm thrifty and shop for bargains. Almost every tool referred above was a discounted sale or already used when I purchased. Batteries are a premium, and keep their value until they age so they were and are a significant part of the cordless investment, vs the compressed air I mentioned in paragraph previous. So what's the point? Well, I do appreciate the positive points of a cordless tool system. Portability is the biggest thing, and now that the technology has come to deliver comparable performance to air tools using a 20 volt platform, that is an even greater positive. My 40 Kobalt tools are really great, the batteries are heavy, bulky, and expensive as all get out. My 36 volt Dewalt tools are somewhat great. The batteries are heavy, bulky, and Mercedes level expensive. The tools are built like old corded saws...no need for an extended warranty, you can regularly throw them off a roof. The best reason not to get rid of them is run time, which is like all day. But the impact gun is a huge disappointment, and provided the impetus for this thread. When I last took lug nuts off, I was changing tires on my Silverado, and the nuts were torqued to 140 foot pounds factory spec. The Dewalt, with a half charged battery and a rating of 325 ft/lbs of tightening torque, couldn't budge them. I was disappointed but not surprised, as i've had to break lug nuts by hand as a general rule using this tool. Never has it loosened my F250 bolts at 165 ft/lbs. On a whim, I picked my my Bauer 1/2 impact with a fresh battery. This is the old model with the brush motor. It took all 24 lugs nuts off without a struggle or even a pause. So I think that's a demonstration of the advances in technology in cordless tools, which leads to suspect that there have been similar advances in the technology used in air tools, which led me to a google search, and subsequently this thread. I intend to continue to use air power. Tools are lighter, make a neat sound, and some of them have no comparable battery tool. An air hammer has saved me lots and lots of time over the years. I will have an air compressor to power tire tools and blasting cabinet, there's no reason not to use it for other things. And I get to buy a hose reel. Icepick, make him an offer he can't refuse, that's a great pile to work with. I just went out and dusted off my framing nailer, as Harbor Fright has the nails that fit it on clearance. 😀 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I noticed last year watching NHRA drag races that some of the top teams are still using air powered tools to tear down the engine between rounds which is a time sensitive deal. Must be a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 37 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said: I noticed last year watching NHRA drag races that some of the top teams are still using air powered tools to tear down the engine between rounds which is a time sensitive deal. Must be a reason. As with many things, even down to cooking, what a pro uses and all the backup and help he has don't apply to use plebes. There are obviously reasons, they may have nothing to do with what we do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 Again, not exactly on topic, but within the realm.... I grabbed my HF Bauer brushed 1/2 drive and a fresh charged battery and tried unsuccessfully to spin a lugnut off the F250. Then I swapped the battery to my HF Bauer brushless 1/2 drive and spun three lug nuts off lickety split. Then I spun a wheel bolt off an old parts tractor that's probably been on there for 50 years, again without hesitation. I was going to buy a 3/4 drive Earthquake XT gun on clearance today, but reason prevailed and I passed on the awesome 40% off clearance price that ended today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Interesting, and good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I have to say my 2135TI (I'm pretty sure that's the number) IR 1/2" drive impact has been pretty bulletproof. That being said that Ryobi 18v cordless I got last year puts out just as much power. But, like you, I have that big 60 gallon compressor and I won't be getting rid of my shop air. I do woodworking, metal working, and auto work all in my shop and have way too many tools that are corded, cordless, and air. The air nailers, framing nailers, pin nailers, air hammer, and body work tools are either exorbitantly expensive in other options, impractical, or just simply unavailable in electric. Then again, had a friend of mine a couple weeks back that had a couple of lug nuts that had self welded and it took my 210 pound ass with a 6 foot cheater pipe and a breaker bar to get them to break free so NO AMOUNT of air or electric power I had available could handle those. Sometimes you gotta use the right tool; whether air, electric, or butt-cheek 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 You could have borrowed my one inch railroad gun. It uses a ton of air, but has removed every fastener I've put it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said: You could have borrowed my one inch railroad gun. It uses a ton of air, but has removed every fastener I've put it on. What's it take, three men and a boy to pick it up? 😃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 Chain fall and a gantry. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I need more things with carburetors: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 eBay link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 That's a beast for sure, and probably doesn't require the 15 CFM that mine needs to turn over, which is why I've only ever used it taking it to someone ELSE'S garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOXXIC Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/4/2024 at 8:59 AM, rockmeupto125 said: So those of you who may have used old tools, or you geriatrics who have upgraded, do you have any insights? Are new are tools that much more powerful than the vintage ones? ‘Couple years back I added a Husky 1/2” air impact to the box, it claimed 600 ft pounds. It is way more impressive than my other older,air impacts. I need to do some tests, but my cordless 1/2” DeWalt impact gets down and does work. Used to be my corded 1/2” Milwaukee was the tool when the older air powered impacts couldn’t get it done…not so sure anymore. I love tools and have 6 or so impacts of various corded, cordless, and air power. ‘’When I built the shop I ran 3/4” pex in the wall to my 8- gallon air compressor. No complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/4/2024 at 9:13 AM, SwampNut said: The new battery powered tools that make air obsolete are indeed much more powerful. Nope. My ancient air ratchets will crush battery versions....and your hand if you're not careful. Battery impacts have improved greatly and appear to be about on par with air. I think air can go higher power/speed than battery, but they've gone beyond the normal needs so it's moot. Then the other things. Probably the biggest reason to stay with air; the tools are cheaper and they all take the same hose, unless you move up to huge tools and have a small hose. Air tools are smaller, but the hose is a pain, and can be an absolute hindrance in tight spaces. All metal air tools are about the same weight or less than battery tools, depending on the tools compared. Pretty sure the plastic air tools are always lighter. Air is usually noisier, but I find the faster high pitch hammering of battery impacts to be more annoying. The sound of an air ratchet is almost like a 2 stroke, very distinct and brings out a certain feeling. And they sound similar to an air starter motor, a sound I really miss. All that said, I was the first to adopt battery power at the International dealership. They were more expensive, way lower powered, and the air was free. Everyone thought I was a moron, eventually I started hearing them from other bays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I have a new concern with air tools, considering that I am probably going to start bodywork and painting in my garage soon. Air tools use oil for lubrication, and that winds up atomized and floating about in the atmosphere, eventually landing on prepped surfaces. Sure, one can degrease, but it seems to me that is to a large extent just thinning it out and distributing it over the entire surface. I don't know how much of a concern this is, obviously others deal with it. I have a friend who is searching for his dream shop, which he insists will have a bodywork bay and a paint booth for me, so it may not be a long-term issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/4/2024 at 8:59 AM, rockmeupto125 said: As I'm looking over my tool collections, needs, and wants for the new garage, I'm not finding the answer to a question that has surfaced in my small brain. I have quite a collection of old air powered tools that I used to use on a regular basis when I wrenched for money. Snap-On, Ingersol-Rand, Bluepoint branded impact guns, ratchets and such. I know that the engineering is dynamic, and new air tools continue to be produced and sold, so they must be doing something right. What I can't find with a google search (what CAN you find anymore with a google search except something for sale) is any comparison of old air tools vs new air tools. So those of you who may have used old tools, or you geriatrics who have upgraded, do you have any insights? Are new are tools that much more powerful than the vintage ones? I think what's advanced the most is how much power/speed you can get from cheap Chinese air tools. It used to be difficult to find a budget air gun that had enough power to be useful, now it seems hard to find one that isn't. It's likely that you can get a new Ingersol or other top brand tool that's more powerful than the old ones, but I've never felt that my old ones needed to be upgraded. If your old high end tool crapped out today you could probably replace it with a HF tool that would be as powerful or more. I have had some good old tools that lost power, and one that seized, while in storage. A shot of oil in the inlet usually cures them, and don't forget to grease them if they have a nipple. The one that had seized required a tear-down to get it back to full power. I now try to remember to hit them with oil right before putting them away since I know they'll sit a long time, 3-4 drops and one quick hit of the trigger. Smart me would run them all a bit once in a while, but I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 9 minutes ago, IcePrick said: I have a new concern with air tools, considering that I am probably going to start bodywork and painting in my garage soon. Air tools use oil for lubrication, and that winds up atomized and floating about in the atmosphere, eventually landing on prepped surfaces. Sure, one can degrease, but it seems to me that is to a large extent just thinning it out and distributing it over the entire surface. I don't know how much of a concern this is, obviously others deal with it. I have a friend who is searching for his dream shop, which he insists will have a bodywork bay and a paint booth for me, so it may not be a long-term issue. I'd never thought about that, I don't do bodywork. Silicone spray lube is very clean looking, use that instead of petroleum oil 😇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Pretty much everybody I used to hang out in used a da, and that's one of the highest air demand tools out there. Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 24 minutes ago, superhawk996 said: I'd never thought about that, I don't do bodywork. Silicone spray lube is very clean looking, use that instead of petroleum oil 😇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 47 minutes ago, rockmeupto125 said: Pretty much everybody I used to hang out in used a da, and that's one of the highest air demand tools out there. Just sayin'. Yeah. Overthinking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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