SwampNut Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Edit: Critical info, rear brake, single piston. These brake pads are 15 months and 12,600km old (62634.092 furlongs). They are on a 2022 Zero FX/E, ridden as a daily commuter and occasional fun. The driver is not retarded, got that out of the way first. What happened? I know, helped him figure it out, so let's have a game. In the end he figured out the actual answer, based on my explanation of what had to happen to get here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Dummy forgot to perform the brake pad rotation, and/or he makes too many left turns while on the brakes. If it's only got piston(s) on one side, caliper slide pin jammed up. If it's pistons on both sides, piston jammed up-less likely. It's also possible that there was a caliper/bracket installation screw-up, but I think that would have eaten the pad quicker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 One sided piston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I'd say the caliper is not centered and/or isn't floating. Incorrect caliper mount, caliper play obstruction, rotor location incorrect, rotor thickness incorrect, wheel not where it should be (spacers swapped?)... even though it was only working that pad, still seems a little premature unless it was under constant friction. I'd want to know if it was front or rear, and if the wheel has ever been off the bike or if it's still a factory install. I'm going with the wheel not being where it's supposed to be, spacers swapped as the first thing I'd check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 That's critical info; rear brake. I don't know if the wheel had been removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I'm guessing the worn pad is the piston side, but want to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 It is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Any unusual wear on the drive belt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, IcePrick said: Any unusual wear on the drive belt? Zero (ahem) issues on anything else on the bike. Nothing, perfect record, except this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 He keeps *just* enough pressure on the brake pedal all the time to actuate the piston and run the pad onto the rotor, but not enough to cause the caliper to center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 Might as well proceed on into the "hint" phase of this game. "He" doesn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just now, SwampNut said: Might as well proceed on into the "hint" phase of this game. "He" doesn't do that. Oh, give some others a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmike Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Hmm, piston not fully retracting when MC pressure is relieved? Some sort of blockage in the line or at the MC port? Or some crud on the piston's perimeter/caliper's bore contributing to the hang up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, IcePrick said: Oh, give some others a chance. We'll have to see if me hinting at the rider's gender could be helpful, or actually could make it much much harder. Hints aren't necessarily helpful, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 hour ago, SwampNut said: We'll have to see if me hinting at the rider's gender could be helpful, or actually could make it much much harder. Hints aren't necessarily helpful, LOL. So it's a tranny problem? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Factory forgot to grease slide pin? Long-shot guess: Return spring missing from rear brake pedal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted December 5, 2023 Author Share Posted December 5, 2023 I've never noticed visible grease on motorcycle slide pins. Did I just miss it? My Zero is dry. The pin has a slippery feel, like some coating. Bonus points. He's told me now that since this problem was corrected, the brake regen is engaging at all times. Most e-bikes (small and large) have two regen levels. One is when you chop throttle, and most can be set from 0 to 100%. The other is when you touch the brakes, a switch engages the brake-on regen, also tunable for 0-100%. For example, my favorite tune applies around 90% throttle chop, and then goes to only 80 with the brake, so it fades. His preference is 0 throttle and 100 brake. Now when he chops the throttle, it does 100% regen, but does NOT turn on the brake light. Fun shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Since this is obvious a foreign bike, do the brakes vary from U.S. models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 The gender thing is throwing me for a loop. It almost makes me think you're going to say they initiate all braking sessions using the rear brake first, or exclusively use the rear brake, or something that is rear brake-specific like that. Or perhaps because they are short they keep their right foot on the rear brake most of the time and use their left foot to keep the bike upright, as the average female is shorter than the average male. Then again, the fact you mentioned the electric bike and regenerative braking makes me think this may be an electrical malfunction that is causing this, almost like an ABS issue that causes such a rapid pulse that somehow whatever pressure the rider is causing is magnified; creating the drag effect we are seeing indicated on the (assuming) inside pad (or whichever pad is the piston-driven one). But, hell, this is 2023, the bike may identify as a military Humvee for all we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) An adjustment, or manufacturer fuck up, or something, was keeping the pedal from fully retracting keeping a little pressure in the system and keeping the brake switch on telling the bike not to give full regen. Edited December 5, 2023 by superhawk996 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXBirdSlapper Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) I literally had the same type failure on a rear brake job I did a few months back. Pins slid perfectly. Fast forward to the solution. The pads I installed were too wide and one stuck in the bracket. Never saw this personally before. The replacement was the same. I manually reduced the width after redoing the job and troubleshooting it. Tabs that should slide in the clips were not blanked cleanly. I'd estimate the die set was worn out and that was clearly evident in the burnished band of the failed pad. I should have caught it when I assembled it the first time, but was pressed for time and working outside in the dark. Kinda my fault, but not really. Other side is wearing evenly. Less than 5k on the failure. Edited December 6, 2023 by XXBirdSlapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 12 minutes ago, XXBirdSlapper said: pressed for time and working outside in the dark Is there any other way to do a brake job? 😆 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 ...sub-par adhesive. ...or factory defect pad (no friction material) that was installed on a Monday or a Friday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Okay, pony up. What is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted December 6, 2023 Author Share Posted December 6, 2023 7 hours ago, blackhawkxx said: Since this is obvious a foreign bike, do the brakes vary from U.S. models? US bike. Zero is American made, probably more than Hardley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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