Tires and Tire changers

[rockmeupto125]

And that's exactly the point. My tire machine is down, but I would still do bike tires by hand, no second thought. Hopefully come spring I can get things working again.

[SwampNut]

12 hours ago, IcePrick said:

 

😆 Because we can all see the look on his face and hear his voice saying that.

 

 

100%.

 

Joe unfortunately the real issue is balancing.  I'm sure I could change a dirt tire, of course, pretty sure I know where the tools are even.  But not balance it.  And that's what they are claiming is the delay.  Today around 11 or noon I'll go there and just take back whatever they have in whatever state it's in, and go to another shop as needed.

 

[superhawk996]

A piece of tubing, steel rod, or whatever on a pair of jack stands to act as an axle and you've got a balancer.  Swing by a tire shop on your way home and pick up a few wheel weights.

[superhawk996]

Or put it on the bike's axle.  If the seals ride on spacers, leave those out to minimize friction.

[tomek]

Only static balance is required for mcycle tires, especially for skinnies on dirt bike. 

 

Bike balancer kit from HF is like 50 bucks. Wheel weights are available online.

Edited January 21, 2024 by tomek

[tomek]

1 hour ago, superhawk996 said:

A piece of tubing, steel rod, or whatever on a pair of jack stands to act as an axle and you've got a balancer.  Swing by a tire shop on your way home and pick up a few wheel weights.

 Not really. Unless diameter of tubing, etc. is exactly like ID of bearing. Very unlikely. 

 Just use wheel's axle and couple stands. Usually axle sticks out far enough to do it on stands. Or remove brake caliper, etc. and do it in swingarm, forks, etc.

[SwampNut]

2 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

A piece of tubing, steel rod, or whatever on a pair of jack stands to act as an axle and you've got a balancer.  Swing by a tire shop on your way home and pick up a few wheel weights.

 

Until you need a more dynamic balance.  The last tire had offset weights on both sides of the wheel.  Did it absolutely need it?  Dunno.  I'm extremely uninterested in solving this by doing it, I'll solve it by changing shops.  

[superhawk996]

19 hours ago, tomek said:

 Not really. Unless diameter of tubing, etc. is exactly like ID of bearing. Very unlikely. 

 Just use wheel's axle and couple stands. Usually axle sticks out far enough to do it on stands. Or remove brake caliper, etc. and do it in swingarm, forks, etc.

I've seen it done with a smaller diameter tube, but I've never done it so I don't know how precise it is.

[tomek]

15 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

I've seen it done with a smaller diameter tube, but I've never done it so I don't know how precise it is.

 It could be off too much, because wheel kinda gotta "climb" in order too spin. So, you get higher friction wheel bearings with seals, vs those on balancer, plus what I mentioned. 

 Normally you won't feel balancing off by 0.25 oz, but 0.5 oz will be definitely noticable. 

 Back in a day I used old bearings without seals and no grease, just wd40. Wheel with OEM axle, those old bearings, and couple stands. It worked pretty good, low friction. 

 

 Also, tell you bro to stop fricking out about tires not being dynamically balanced. Here is picture of Dunlop crew changing tires during Moto America races. Further on the left are tire balancing stations. Static. Those bikes go 190 mph and have rear tires of 200/65-17 size. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2024 by tomek

[superhawk996]

18 hours ago, SwampNut said:

Until you need a more dynamic balance.

I've seen photos of MotoGP guys static balancing in the pits which implies that it's good enough.  With such a skinny wheel, it would be interesting to know if it'll get offset weights.  I've read that shops use machines just because it's faster and easier.  If you get a chance, talk with the shop about it and see if they'll give you any useful info about static vs. dynamic.  With a machine, I believe the proper terms will be single plane and dual plane balancing.

[superhawk996]

5 minutes ago, tomek said:

 It could be off too much, because wheel kinda gotta "climb" in order too spin. So, you get higher friction wheel bearings with seals, vs those on balancer, plus what I mentioned. 

The couple I've seen using a smaller diameter tube had it supported on small bearings, they barely moved, most of the rotation was happening at the wheel bearings.  BUT they were using galvanized pipe which is rough so it might have been 'binding' the bearings it was supported on.  Watching it left me wondering how well it worked, unfortunately they didn't actually show the balancing being done, they were describing how to do it.

 

5 minutes ago, tomek said:

 Back in a day I used old bearings without seals and no grease, just wd40. Wheel with OEM axle, those old bearings, and couple stands. It worked pretty good, low friction. 

You went to the extreme, probably not necessary, but it can help.

 

5 minutes ago, tomek said:

 

 Also, tell you bro to stop fricking out about tires not being dynamically balanced. Here is picture of Dunlop crew changing tires during Moto America races. Further on the left are tire balancing stations. Static. Those bikes go 190 mph and have rear tires of 200/65-17 size. 

 

 

 

 

I kinda did.  Keep in mind that there are things the racers do that aren't good for the street, and it's possible that their wheels and tires are more perfect than what we buy.  But I have a hard time imagining how their balancing technique wouldn't translate well to street riding.  Next time I'm at a dealership I'll try to remember to see if new bikes are single or dual plane balanced.

[tomek]

 Well, at dealership level dynamic balancing is more "idiot proof", it is difficult to screw it up. And we all know who changes tires there. And potentially faster, although those guys working during races know right away how much weight  any given tire needs after couple rotations. Experience.

 Also, it is easier to justify price for tire change vs. shop equipped with stone age static balancer. 

 

But in case of narrow dirt bike tires dynamic is absolute, massive and biblical overkill. 

[superhawk996]

6 minutes ago, tomek said:

But in case of narrow dirt bike tires dynamic is absolute, massive and biblical overkill. 

IT'S AN XR650R BITCH!!!  Way faster than those stupid motoGP junkers.

[SwampNut]

So Tomek confirms that I really do need a full dynamic balance, got it.

 

[tomek]

27 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

IT'S AN XR650R BITCH!!!  Way faster than those stupid motoGP junkers.

Lol.

 Btw, I have xr600r that I finished restoring about 10 years. It just needs to be put back together. Huge desert 5 gallons tank, upgraded dual charging/ignition kit, 628 kit. No fucking time. Sad. 

[blackhawkxx]

5 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

and it's possible that their wheels and tires are more perfect than what we buy.

Which makes me wonder, is there any point to balancing the bare wheel first which would be a permanent balance? 

[SwampNut]

52 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

Which makes me wonder, is there any point to balancing the bare wheel first which would be a permanent balance? 

 

In a perfect world you have the tire's high point opposite the wheel's high point, giving the best pre-weight balance.

[tomek]

3 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

Which makes me wonder, is there any point to balancing the bare wheel first which would be a permanent balance? 

You still would have to balance assembly but you could, potentially, save 4.56 $ on wheel weights over 10 years long period. Also, you'd end up with wheel weights in two different points. And one set would be beautiful and shiny, the second one, from bare wheel balancing-dull and flat. 

[CBR-RR-XX-CESS]

Did a track day and purchased new Corsa's at the track. When I picked them up he showed me he took half cup of water out of the rear. Would that be like balancing beads?   Obviously the previous shop never drained their compressor. 

[blackhawkxx]

1 hour ago, tomek said:

And one set would be beautiful and shiny, the second one, from bare wheel balancing-dull and flat. 

I usually paint them to match the wheel color so they are less noticeable.  

[superhawk996]

6 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

Which makes me wonder, is there any point to balancing the bare wheel first which would be a permanent balance? 

Probably not, unless you could buy perfectly balanced tires.

[rockmeupto125]

I usually find that pricey tires have quite even weight distribution.

 

Carlos, your dynamic machine balance is fine but you won't tell the difference between a proper static balance.  And you doing it yourself will take the time to get it right with one wheel weight rather than someone who isn't invested in your bike. I've taken multiple weights of wheels only to replace with one (along with a name brand tire instead of in iChang or DuraKing).

 

I bet Mike doesn't cart a big machine to the salt flats every year.

[blackhawkxx]

Here's something different.  There is a video in the link.

 

https://us.rabaconda.com/products/street-bike-tire-changer

 

 

 

[OMG]

I still change my own, closest shop is 50+ miles away.

With static balancing I get a rough idea where the heavy spot is and rotate that up.

Then rotate the wheel slowly one direction till it rolls on it's own, mark the top, rotate it the opposite till it rolls on it's own, mark that.

Center between marks is the heavy spot. Then apply weights accordingly.

BMW I use balance beads just cause the wheel adapter is pricey.

[blackhawkxx]

3 hours ago, OMG said:

I still change my own, closest shop is 50+ miles away.

With static balancing I get a rough idea where the heavy spot is and rotate that up.

Then rotate the wheel slowly one direction till it rolls on it's own, mark the top, rotate it the opposite till it rolls on it's own, mark that.

Center between marks is the heavy spot. Then apply weights accordingly.

BMW I use balance beads just cause the wheel adapter is pricey.

Yeah, I still balance my own but now no longer change my tires because of the son's air powered machine.