SwampNut Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Henckel of course says that it really helps and makes everything better. Of course they would. Some people claim, but I didn't find, that Heli-coil doesn't recommend it. Also, I'm going to be using an off brand, not actually Heli-coil brand. It's a 10mm bolt going into generic Chinese aluminum that was damaged. I can *probably* drill the hold so that there's a shoulder left to stop the coil, as the bolt only goes in a few scant MM, maybe 5-8, and the material is around 12-14mm total. The bolt will need to be removed for service on a very rare occasion, maybe a few times in the entire life of the part, if that. I always put anti-sieze on the bolt going into a Heli-coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) I wouldn't do it. And if you do, use a teeny-tiny drop of low strength. If it comes out, you can always go back with Loc-tite. Edited April 25, 2022 by jon haney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 Henckel says generous amounts of high-strength. Obviously they have a vested interest in selling you more, but they are generally a trustworthy company with great products. https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/applications/all-applications/product-application/install-helicoil.html EDIT: To be double clear, this is for the coil to female thread part. This is NOT for the bolt to coil part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXBirdSlapper Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Why would you need to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBLXX Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 I used a drop of red on one side. Heat gun softens it when you need. Gave me peace of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 2 hours ago, SwampNut said: Henckel says generous amounts of high-strength. Obviously they have a vested interest in selling you more, but they are generally a trustworthy company with great products. https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/applications/all-applications/product-application/install-helicoil.html EDIT: To be double clear, this is for the coil to female thread part. This is NOT for the bolt to coil part. Wouldn't the loc-tite come through the coil and get on the bolt? How would you keep them separate? Sooo, after the coil is installed with loc-tite, you let it set, and chase the threads with a tap before installing the bolt? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, jon haney said: How would you keep them separate? I use the paste Loc-tite, not sure if it would come through or not. I'd install the bolt with anti-sieze which should prevent adhesion. Any Loc-tite that comes through wouldn't need to be chased though, it won't harden if it's exposed to air. It's an anaerobic adhesive. There's just no clear answer on this, lots of varying opinions. I marginally lean towards using it because I've had coils walk before, and a friend who ran a moto shop said he always uses it and had no issues. He also had some coils walk under usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 It's not typically needed, but it shouldn't cause any harm. Some loctites need a primer to cure on 'inactive' metals like SS and aluminum so check into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Can't hurt. Might be useful if the fit isn't too tight, occasionally will see a heli coil walk out. Not the end of the world there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 A super strong permanent repair option; Loctite the helicoil and a stud, then use a nut for whatever it's holding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 It went alright. The second time. Did you know it's REALLY hard to cut whatever these Chinesium coils are made of? I'm riding again, until the new part arrives from China in a few weeks. I tried to back one out, no fucking way. But what my friend had reported is them continuing to walk in with each tightening. In my case, all the stars aligned and the Chinesium alloy bike frame cut like butter with the included 10.3mm bit, using a hand drill super slow. So I was able to leave a shoulder for it to bottom out against. EDIT: I'm such a racist. Package says made in Thailand. So it's Thaitanium, not Chinesium. Anyway, these kits on Amazon are solid, recommended. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VZF6GH5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 Why not to drill and tap to next thread size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted April 26, 2022 Author Share Posted April 26, 2022 Well, the seller of the bike frames said they no longer have the damaged part for sale alone. So, this becomes the permanent fix, glad I put a lot of care into it. Or I need to try to contact a few others and see what they have, if we can communicate at all. 14 hours ago, superhawk996 said: A super strong permanent repair option; Loctite the helicoil and a stud, then use a nut for whatever it's holding. I did make a mild attempt at something similar, but no go. The space is super small between the swingarm and cassette (gears). Still, I had a few of the half-thickness nuts that might do it. But also, did you know that bicycle shifters are held on by a very weird bolt with a very specific notched/indexed plastic washer that snaps into a ride in the bolt, and there's a specific shoulder to keep a certain tension on it? I couldn't duplicate that without a machine shop. The part that was damaged is a small replaceable plate that costs $4, and only exists in China, and maybe not sold alone any more at all. It would be trivial to make a new one though, with a mill. And possible with a hacksaw and a Dremel and a lot of drinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 On 4/25/2022 at 6:20 PM, superhawk996 said: Some loctites need a primer to cure on 'inactive' metals like SS and aluminum so check into that. I didn't know about the primer so I went to their site which has other interesting FAQs. https://www.tryloctite.in/faq/ We recommend the use of primer where both the parts come under the category of 'inactive surfaces'. These metals lack the iron or copper content and thus the metallic ions are required to fully cure the product within 24 hours. These inactive surfaces include plated parts, stainless steel, galvanized steel and anodized aluminium to name a few. On the other hand, in case both or at least one part is an active metal, then there is no need to use a primer to ensure full cure which is typically within 24 hours at room temperature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 46 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said: I didn't know about the primer so I went to their site which has other interesting FAQs. https://www.tryloctite.in/faq/ We recommend the use of primer where both the parts come under the category of 'inactive surfaces'. These metals lack the iron or copper content and thus the metallic ions are required to fully cure the product within 24 hours. These inactive surfaces include plated parts, stainless steel, galvanized steel and anodized aluminium to name a few. On the other hand, in case both or at least one part is an active metal, then there is no need to use a primer to ensure full cure which is typically within 24 hours at room temperature. Chingrish crap on Loctite's FAQ, I'm surprised. When I assembled my VW basket case of junk into an engine I used primer. Loctite and JB Weld were that engine's only chance of survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted April 27, 2022 Author Share Posted April 27, 2022 If I ever get/make a replacement part, this can be strength tested. It's not anodized, so I didn't use any primer. So far nobody else has come up with the part, since of course, you shouldn't be able to crash damage that piece I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 On 4/26/2022 at 12:32 PM, SwampNut said: So it's Thaitanium, not Chinesium. ROFL 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted April 27, 2022 Share Posted April 27, 2022 I've always red loctite-ed helicoils, and put antiseize on the bolt. I liked Oscars suggestion of a stud. You couldn't do it in every application, obviously, but it would probably be the most greatest fix. 75% of helicoils I've put in were for spark plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted April 27, 2022 Author Share Posted April 27, 2022 Yeah if I had options for a stud, bolt, nut, etc., that would have been the top choice. For a spark plug, drill the stud, wrap some electrical tape around a welding rod, and put that in for the electrode. Duh. You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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