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Mint 2001 Blackbird/No Start


singram
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13 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

I just re-read and you said snip it off, I glossed over that.

 

I took a quick look in my manual and don't see a fuel pump fuse but I think they have one.  If there is and it's on the inlet side of the relay then no problem.  If the fuse is on the outlet that's probably where the problem is, and your auxiliary wire would be bypassing it.  Simple test, if there is a fuse, pull it with your auxiliary wire on and see if the pump stops.

I'll definitely give that a look at as well.  HUGE thanks to all help!!

 

Regarding how much I paid, get this-  I believe you assisted the seller with this issue back in May😆 I scoured all the back thread in the Garage section hoping to find something that would help with my issue when I came across a thread where the member had the same exact pump/electrical symptoms as me. Digging deeper, he also had a red 2001 bird and according to his sig, also lives in the Chicago area(figure the odds, LOL!!). I guess he just gave up on it and sold it for $3500. to me  🤔 But yeah, this bike is friggin MINT.  He placed it on Craigslist on a Sunday morning, I was the first person to call on it. Bought it non-running instantly.

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Hmm, regarding that fuse, when I traced the brown wire from the relay to the pump, I didnt note any fuses on that circuit.  Maybe on the brown/black wire going to the ECU(?) Dont know. 

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Typically an ECU sends power or ground to the 'trigger' side of the relay, a low current electromagnet that pulls the contacts to send power to the pump.  The power handling side of the relay will have battery on one leg and the pump on the other.  I don't know if the fuse would be on the inlet to the relay or the outlet to the pump.

 

I looked at the schematic and it doesn't show a fuse between the relay and pump, but also didn't see one on the feed side of the relay but I didn't study it hard enough to know for sure.

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The brown wire does show to go through a connector in the harness, though.  That would be a possible place for a loose pin/contact, if not corrosion.

Edited by FiXXation
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6 hours ago, FiXXation said:

The brown wire does show to go through a connector in the harness, though.  That would be a possible place for a loose pin/contact, if not corrosion.

Yeah, I noted that harness connector as well.  I may having a closer look at that this Winter when I have the tank off anyway to replace the fuel filter as precaution.  For now, snip/snip and new Brown wire insulated and ran alongside the harness.

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9 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Typically an ECU sends power or ground to the 'trigger' side of the relay, a low current electromagnet that pulls the contacts to send power to the pump.  The power handling side of the relay will have battery on one leg and the pump on the other.  I don't know if the fuse would be on the inlet to the relay or the outlet to the pump.

 

I looked at the schematic and it doesn't show a fuse between the relay and pump, but also didn't see one on the feed side of the relay but I didn't study it hard enough to know for sure.

Yeah, same thing I'm seeing too.

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49 minutes ago, rockmeupto125 said:

I've been on vacation, so I'm struggling trying to catch up on this.

 

Did you check the fuel pump relay, swap it out for another one?

 

You can send me your ECU, or I can send you a working one.

I very much appreciate the offer, sir.  It looks like I've solved the issue.  In answer to your question, I did in fact check all relays(all good). The pump was able to prime when jumped directly to the battery, but not in circuit. I initially noted voltage being sent up to the pump when the bike was in the ON position, but closer inspection showed that this voltage dropped out after 1 second, and no voltage at the pump connector with the pump connected. The answer came pretty quickly yesterday when I noted that I was getting continuity from the Pump Green to the frame Ground, but ZERO continuity from Pump Brown to the relay. In running a separate test wire from the pump to relay I was able to not only get the pump to prime, but was able to get the bike started, pretty much isolating the trouble to Pump Brown wire to the relay.

 

From here, I'll most likely just clip off the Brown wire connectors at the pump and relay, and run an insolated external wire along the harness.  Maybe this Winter I'll remove the tank, unravel the harness and fish out the remnants of the brown wire, but I think I'm going to get fsome seat time on this bike first :)

 

Wow, I'm VERY impressed at the amount of responses and help I've gotten from this site in such a short amount of time! I really thought motorcycle enthusiast forums were pretty much a thing of the past and I'd have to go it alone.  Thanks again everyone, I think I'll stick around for awhile!  

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8 hours ago, singram said:

Wow, I'm VERY impressed at the amount of responses and help I've gotten from this site in such a short amount of time! I really thought motorcycle enthusiast forums were pretty much a thing of the past and I'd have to go it alone.  Thanks again everyone, I think I'll stick around for awhile!  

Every forum is different, and they're all comprised of individuals so the experience will be different for everyone.  This place was created by someone that doesn't believe in nanny filters/rules.  There is one rule and if you break it you'll be hung out to dry.  I'm very proud to be related to the guy that created this place.

 

What's the meaning behind your user name?

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12 hours ago, singram said:

Wow, I'm VERY impressed at the amount of responses and help I've gotten from this site in such a short amount of time! I really thought motorcycle enthusiast forums were pretty much a thing of the past and I'd have to go it alone.  Thanks again everyone, I think I'll stick around for awhile!  


Give it time….you’ll quickly learn how insane this group is. ;) 

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7 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Every forum is different, and they're all comprised of individuals so the experience will be different for everyone.  This place was created by someone that doesn't believe in nanny filters/rules.  There is one rule and if you break it you'll be hung out to dry.  I'm very proud to be related to the guy that created this place.

 

What's the meaning behind your user name?

Oh, its a conjunction of my first and last name. 

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Let the roasting begin.

 

Also, another very rare individual who uses first initial/last name on forums.  Almost everywhere except here, that's what I use.  This forum name was given to me by a riding buddy.

 

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FULL SOLUTION IN THIS POST

 

Honestly given how dead typical motorcycle enthusiast sites have been for the last few years, I honestly didnt expect many(if any) responses to my original post so I just whipped my account together on the fly.  Maybe I'll dump this account and sign on with a new one with a more covert username😄 Seriously, I'll be minding my Ps and Qs under this username and limiting my posts to motorcycle related topics, so not overly concerned, LOL!

 

On the note of the first ride on the resurrected bird-  I moved forth with clipping both ends off the Brown wire(pump side and relay side)and routing another wire along the harness. The pump side, I clipped off the brown connector and attached insulated spade connectors on the Green and Brown wires.  The relay side, I cut the brown wire as far down as I could and attached the exterior cable with a wire butt connector. Finally, put a couple gallons of fresh gas in the tank.

 

On initial start-up after the rewiring, the pump would prime, the engine would turn over, but would not start(here we go again). Just for grins, I hit the ram air intakes again with starting fluid. This time its started, stumbled a bit and eventually the idle little by little started smoothening out. Revving her a bit was very smooth. I took her for a spin around the block with no issues, then got her out on a real road for a couple miles(technically not plated or legal yet)and got it up to about 80mph with no issues. My theory is bad/old gas in the tank, line, filter. Just need a good Italian Tune-up!😄 Given this, I also believe that when I initially jumped the pump a couple days ago, it would have started had I done this same thing at the time.

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Hope you don't mind, I edited your post just to make it clear the summary of the solution is contained there.

 

If you need to change your username in order to encourage NWS posts, so be it...  Users are allowed to make that change.

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18 minutes ago, SwampNut said:

Hope you don't mind, I edited your post just to make it clear the summary of the solution is contained there.

 

If you need to change your username in order to encourage NWS posts, so be it...  Users are allowed to make that change.

Oh, no worries on the edit. Was just kidding about the username. I work from home on company equipment, so I'll probably limit my posts to motorcycle specific topics😁

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6 hours ago, singram said:

Honestly given how dead typical motorcycle enthusiast sites have been for the last few years,

😂 This ain't no bike site fool.  It's a gun/bbq/hot sauce/car/truck/pornography/politics/alcohol/shit talking site.

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Regarding the fuel system, get a can of B-12 Chemtool (Walmart) or Seafoam (most auto shops) and dump the whole can in with a fresh tank of gas.  It’s a fuel system safe solvent, and it (IMHO) is the best, cheapest and easiest way to fix any fuel system issue caused by fouling or gumming caused by bad gas or sitting too long.  It it doesn’t pour like a kitten after that, you know it is likely mechanical.
 

I replaced the fuel filter on my ‘99 around 50K.  Had to dismount the tank and remove the guts.  Doable, but largely unnecessary before 100K unless you’ve gotten really bad gas.  I know several bikers who fixed a “bad” bike just by cleaning the fuel system because the prior owner let it sit too long.

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I agree on a fuel cleaner.  I don't know anything about B12, but my choices are typically Lucas, Sea Foam, or Star Tron.  I'm not saying B12 is bad just don't know it.

 

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The only one I've watched work is Techron.  And by watched, I mean it was put in and a few minutes later the engine smoothed out.

 

I never thought much of Sea Foam for no reason other than it seems to be some very generic petroleum product with too many applications to trust WTF it does; gas treatment, diesel treatment, crankcase cleaner, intake cleaner, ...  It might be good stuff, I've never really tested it.  Lots of people swear by it, some of the testimonials/youtube reviews are so ridiculous it makes me doubt all of them.  I really love the ones that show smoke pouring from the exhaust as proof of all the stuff it's cleaning out, the product itself is what's smoking and it'll do the same in a brand new engine.

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2 hours ago, SwampNut said:

I agree on a fuel cleaner.  I don't know anything about B12, but my choices are typically Lucas, Sea Foam, or Star Tron.  I'm not saying B12 is bad just don't know it.


It’s essentially the same stuff as Seafoam…just 1/2 the price.

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1 hour ago, superhawk996 said:

The only one I've watched work is Techron.  And by watched, I mean it was put in and a few minutes later the engine smoothed out.

 

I never thought much of Sea Foam for no reason other than it seems to be some very generic petroleum product with too many applications to trust WTF it does; gas treatment, diesel treatment, crankcase cleaner, intake cleaner, ...  It might be good stuff, I've never really tested it.  Lots of people swear by it, some of the testimonials/youtube reviews are so ridiculous it makes me doubt all of them.  I really love the ones that show smoke pouring from the exhaust as proof of all the stuff it's cleaning out, the product itself is what's smoking and it'll do the same in a brand new engine.

 

I have watched it work.  Got gas in the Wing, about two blocks later it seemed to be running on 3 of the six cylinders, I barely got it home.  Dumped in some SF and let it run and in about five minutes, all was well.  My bikes and car sit from Nov to April every year, with Sta-bil only, I would sometimes have carb issues or at least it would be a very hard time starting and running smoothly.  After also including SF, there has been zero issues.

For storage, I use about 1/4 can per bike and 1/2 per car.

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3 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

The only one I've watched work is Techron.  And by watched, I mean it was put in and a few minutes later the engine smoothed out.

 

I never thought much of Sea Foam for no reason other than it seems to be some very generic petroleum product with too many applications to trust WTF it does; gas treatment, diesel treatment, crankcase cleaner, intake cleaner, ...  It might be good stuff, I've never really tested it.  Lots of people swear by it, some of the testimonials/youtube reviews are so ridiculous it makes me doubt all of them.  I really love the ones that show smoke pouring from the exhaust as proof of all the stuff it's cleaning out, the product itself is what's smoking and it'll do the same in a brand new engine.

 

Remember back when Star Tron had a testimonial claiming that a guy's speed got higher at the same RPM?  LOL!

 

I've seen Lucas work to free up one stick injector, in something like ten minutes of driving.

 

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I typically buy a couple cans of SF and run through them on the first few tanks on really long rides. 

My current fuel pump (on Mike'sold bike) has around 65,000 miles on it. My original bird is 82K and I believe it is time.

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