blackhawkxx Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, XXitanium said: I get a couple mpg better with the non-ethanol Yes, isn't it great that the gov. makes us use fuel that gets less MPG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Does your MPG also vary by season? My area changes formulation seasonally, but so do driving habits and weather effects. I always get less MPG when the ethanol is lowest. And I also idle much more, it's fucking hot, etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 10 hours ago, SwampNut said: Does your MPG also vary by season? My area changes formulation seasonally, but so do driving habits and weather effects. I always get less MPG when the ethanol is highest. And I also idle much more, it's fucking hot, etc etc. Yeah, winter is terrible. Deisel is worse than gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Is your premium non-E? And is that really the price difference or just a typo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 On 9/11/2018 at 5:14 AM, XXitanium said: Quite a price jump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 It is 93, not 91 like in Cali. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I figured it would be at least 92 like we used to have. Our norm is 87, 89, & 91 with a $.10 bump for each grade so it's surprising to see a $.74 jump between reg & premium. If the reg s E-10 and the premium is non--E then it makes a little more sense. E is a cheap octane booster so without it they have to use more expensive stuff. And I assume they can also take advantage of E haters who will pay the premium for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 14 hours ago, XXitanium said: Yeah, winter is terrible. Backwards from here. Are you idling a lot to heat it up? In summer I idle a lot to run the AC. Also, I typed one sentence incorrectly, fixed now: On 9/11/2018 at 9:03 AM, SwampNut said: I always get less MPG when the ethanol is highest. Should be LOWEST. I get more MPG in winter, with ethanol, and less in summer, without it. But since my habits change and the weather is different, we can't draw ANY conclusions from that. But by some peoples' logic, ethanol increases mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 So on I 80 in Nebraska you can get E10 and non-ethanol gas. Non-ethanol being about 10 % more expensive. Year or two years ago coming back from ski trip I pumped two tanks of non-stop ethanol brewin my Volvo. Mpg did not change.f Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Gas engines, I think the cold dry air (like -10F) drives the mileage down by itself. ...more heat just being lost to waste than normal summer drivig maybe? On top of that, the (diesel) fuel stations put in additives that decrease mileage for those engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) Cold air is also denser- more aero drag. Winter diesel fuel drops mpg big time. Edited September 12, 2018 by tomek T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, tomek said: Non-ethanol being about 10 % more expensive. So basically the 10% ethanol is free? Sign me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John01XX Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I just paid 3.29 today for ethanol free and the E10 was 2.78 Generally here the difference in regular E10 and Ethanol free is always about .50 a gallon. Down in Fort Lauderdale the difference was over .90 per gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I get really bad mileage in the winter but I only drive 4 miles to work in my 4wd truck and I think most of the loss is to frictional due to thick oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 11 hours ago, SwampNut said: Backwards from here. Are you idling a lot to heat it up? In summer I idle a lot to run the AC. Also, I typed one sentence incorrectly, fixed now: Should be LOWEST. I get more MPG in winter, with ethanol, and less in summer, without it. But since my habits change and the weather is different, we can't draw ANY conclusions from that. But by some peoples' logic, ethanol increases mileage. I don't think the ethanol is varied, I think it's other stuff that's varied to change the vapor pressure, but I've never checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 E-10 should get less MPG and lower power than pure gas. I've never heard of winter diesel other than #1 for really cold places. I can imagine #1 giving lower MPG since it's less dense, and there may be other things about it that yield lower efficiency. I don't know of any seasonal variations to the formulation of #2. A diesel will probably loose more efficiency in cold weather than a gasser. As for winter MPG, excluding fuel formulation variations and idle times, consider that all the lubricants are thicker so you'll have more losses there. You tire pressures, unless adjusted, will be lower so more loss there. Headlights are on more. If your car is packing snow/ice there's extra weight and possibly aerodynamic losses. Winter tires have more aggressive tread designs and probably less efficient. Winter tires are often on steel wheels and heaver. And I think that colder air going into the engine can lower MPG also, only tested it once and it wasn't a perfect test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 10 hours ago, XXitanium said: Gas engines, I think the cold dry air (like -10F) drives the mileage down by itself. ...more heat just being lost to waste than normal summer drivig maybe? On top of that, the (diesel) fuel stations put in additives that decrease mileage for those engines. I doubt the stations are allowed to fiddle with fuels, but don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 5 hours ago, John01XX said: I just paid 3.29 today for ethanol free and the E10 was 2.78 Generally here the difference in regular E10 and Ethanol free is always about .50 a gallon. Down in Fort Lauderdale the difference was over .90 per gallon. What do you get from pure gas that makes it worth the premium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John01XX Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I run pure gas in all of my small engines. Weed wacker, edger, mower etc as recommended by small engine mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 4 hours ago, superhawk996 said: I doubt the stations are allowed to fiddle with fuels, but don't know. No, it is blended at the depot where the tankers pick it up for delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 4 hours ago, superhawk996 said: What do you get from pure gas that makes it worth the premium? It is less likely to turn to varnish in carbs and doesn't eat older o-rings and gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 4 hours ago, superhawk996 said: E-10 should get less MPG and lower power than pure gas. ...agree I've never heard of winter diesel other than #1 for really cold places. I can imagine #1 giving lower MPG since it's less dense, and there may be other things about it that yield lower efficiency. I don't know of any seasonal variations to the formulation of #2. A diesel will probably loose more efficiency in cold weather than a gasser.... ....don't put #2 in below 20F. ...And I think that colder air going into the engine can lower MPG also, only tested it once and it wasn't a perfect test. ....this. I've been driving on this crap for forty years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 15 hours ago, tomek said: Cold air is also denser- more aero drag. Winter diesel fuel drops mpg big time. ...it's usually drier, thus less dense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, superhawk996 said: I don't think the ethanol is varied, I think it's other stuff that's varied to change the vapor pressure, but I've never checked. ....different blends for different purposes. https://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_blends.html Edited September 13, 2018 by XXitanium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXX Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 6 hours ago, superhawk996 said: What do you get from pure gas that makes it worth the premium? Diversity. Once all pure gas is banned, the beauty of vehicular evolution will be blunted. Vehicles, like all organisms, thrive in environments that allow for niche uses. The bacteria that live in deep ocean geysers pay a premium for their existence, just like we pay a premium for our large brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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