Hitting a brick wall at 190 kmh

[Jetsetter]

Searched threads for a similar problem , can't find anything.

Had this happen a few times and was never really 100% sure .

Noticed the other day that my bike is topping out at 190 kmh ,,, tried this in 4th , 5th and 6th ,, different revs didn't make any difference , just tops out somewhere around 189,190 or 191 ,, never more ,, kmh remember ,,

Had just ditched the original filter for a K & N and was amazed at the noticable power difference.

Cant really hear anything other than wind noise , certainly no loud bangs . I would have to say it accelerates there ok .

I had a CBR 750 Hurricane , they actually had a speed limiter behind the speedo that you had to disconnect ,, I'm bloody sure their is nothing on the Birds.

Going to go find some clean roads this weekend to investigate this bizarre problem further.

Has to be electrical though doesnt it ?

[cbrxxquad]

Put the stock filter back in and see..

Always go back to the last thing you did.

[partsman]

I'd have a look under the tank to make sure all vaccuum lines are still connected.I can't remember how it's all laid out (winters are long in Canada) but since you changed the air filter maybe one came off.Check your plugs while your at it.

[Iceman_40]

As far as I know there is was no limiter put on any of the XX's. 190Km/h should be easy to get to in 3rd...

I'd check the lines and plugs as others have stated.

[The Krypt Keeper]

I remember reading a few yrs back that one of the members here had a bird in Japan I think, and it had a few things done to limit his power and top end.

Think one of the things were the ram air inlets. One was opened and the other was just for looks. Also the computer had a limiter on it.

Its been 4 or 5 yrs ago but I do remember him trying to convert his neutered bird into a real bird.

[Para045]

There are some of the Euro bikes that are limited in the HP, I believe it was France that did it

Also I have heard of some being restricted temporarily in the UK for newer riders

In the eastern states of Aus they have a system that allows 4ST bikes up to 650cc with a specific power to weight ratio to be used by learners and probationary riders and some of them are restricted down from the normal output The Hyosung 650 is one :icon_think:

Here is West Aus we have a stupid system that restricts learners and P platers to <250cc but that means an XR650 is a no go but a TZR/RGV 2ST is OK :icon_wall:

[Jetsetter]

Quad - Good call , but don't have the old filter , it was filthy anyway and i seem to recall this doing it before ,, whenever anyone asked me how fast i was going I'd often say 191 kmh,,, never dawned on me . DOH ,

I'm not slow ,, it's just the way my mother dresses me !!!

Partsman - Pulled out the airbox to make sure everything is as it should be ,,, looks normal down there

XX Rider - In fact it made it to 190 kmh in 3rd pulling near on 10k on the tacho.

Just didnt seem to want to do anymore than that ,,, left it in 3rd and listened ,, no sounds really,(really only hear wind) dropped a few km changing to 4th , got back to 190kmh again and nothing ,,,tacho read ???? (was too interested in head down near tank listening), but it had heaps of acceleration getting back there,, same with 5th as well ,,,, just gets there and seems to stop , much like hitting an immovable object ,,,,,,possibly electrically break down.

AS I say ,, heaps of acceleration in any gear right up to 189-191 are numbers i have seen ,,, doesnt matter what gear either.

Para - I reckon your onto something here. I am too chicken to intentionally hit the rev limiter so don't know if its the same affect ,,, although glad i no longer have to keep a "feel" for valve bounce.

Having said all the above,, there really isnt anywhere I am likely to need to ride this thing at any greater speed , so aren't really concerned ,, I think I should be looking at a smaller front sprocket perhaps .

Never the less , it would be handy to know if in fact it was factory limited ???

Cheers for your help guys.

[EVLXX]

Just to help us U.S. boys out a little... 190 kmh = 118 mph.

Wow... after doing the math, I would have to say I am astounded, at how slow your bikes fast is.

The only way this can happen is either a major intake or exhaust restriction, which will act like a load limiter, or a electronic speed limiter.

Does, you bike have a Catalytic converter ? Maybe the Jerky boy before you kept putting fuel additive down the tank and plugged your Cat.

[jon haney]

This is kind of an expensive way to solve the mystery, but you could try a Speedo-Healer. You could make adjustments and then see if your top speed moves up or down with the adjustments. That would tell you for sure if it's electronically limited.

Will a Bird run with the speed sensor dis-connected? Maybe that will tell you something.

[TX1100F]

This may be far from your problem but the V45 Sabre I had and loved had Slick50 in the crankcase from the previous owner. I flushed and changed oil frequently until I figgered it was mostly gone. Then I became comfortable and began bringing it up to redline. The clutches slipped like a MF. I replaced the clutch pack (twice I think?) but there was enough residual slick-fooking-50 to coat the pack nicely. Bottom line is that in normal driving I could accelerate and get to a normal speed. But when I hit the throttle and got to the power band, the clutches would let go and I would be stuck with a high revving engine and low relative speed. On a similar note, could your clutch be not fully engaging (air in the line?) or the springs overheated and weak? Just wild-ass-guessing... good luck!

[cbrxxquad]

Pull the mufflers off and give it a try. 118 is not a wall, it's robbery...there is a whole nother bike in there.

[Helvet]

Are you sure you are reading kilometers per hour, and not miles per hour?

Check if the airbox for the filter is closed the right way. Sometimes it's not closed at all....

Even the 100 bhp bikes will make more topspeed,about 240 kph......

[Jetsetter]

Thanks everyone for your concern here with my problem ,, will be having another look over things tomorow and should be able to give an update on where I am at thus far ,,

Seems everything i have looked at seems fine , but given with the fact that it seems to happen in 3,4,5 and 6th of course all at different revs leads me to think its not intake or exhaust ,,

This thing just rapidly gets to 190 kmh and wont go more no matter what gear ,, sometimes 189 sometimes 191

Plugs looked ok , airbox seems to be screwed together properly , filter as it should be , as for the exhaust being blocked , i don't know ,, more checking

I do like the idea of taking the mufflers of it though I don't think I'd make it 100 metres without them and when I pretty much have the only real bike in town ,, I am pretty sure Mr Plod would know where to come ,,,

Thanks guys , the Investigation continues , and I will keep you informed.

[rodantking]

Thanks everyone for your concern here with my problem ,, will be having another look over things tomorow and should be able to give an update on where I am at thus far ,,

Seems everything i have looked at seems fine , but given with the fact that it seems to happen in 3,4,5 and 6th of course all at different revs leads me to think its not intake or exhaust ,,

This thing just rapidly gets to 190 kmh and wont go more no matter what gear ,, sometimes 189 sometimes 191

Plugs looked ok , airbox seems to be screwed together properly , filter as it should be , as for the exhaust being blocked , i don't know ,, more checking

I do like the idea of taking the mufflers of it though I don't think I'd make it 100 metres without them and when I pretty much have the only real bike in town ,, I am pretty sure Mr Plod would know where to come ,,,

Thanks guys , the Investigation continues , and I will keep you informed.

I agree with you. Seams like a limiter to me. Where did the bike originate from?

[Hooplehead]

Sounds controlled by speed. Disconnect speedometer and run it. At least then you'll know if its a limiter or not. 118mph, may as well get a ninja 250. :icon_bs:

[getsarge]

I had a 91 Eagle Talon AWD that would blaze for days...one day I bumped the air intake box loose (I would still like to blame the mechanic that worked on it), and I was limited at 2K rpms...didn't matter what gear, it had nothing above 2K rpms. Reconnected, and no problemo.

I also had an 03 Corolla that I put a short ram air filter on...O2 sensor would shut it down at 3K rpms. Pulled straight to it, then cut out completely. Had to reset the sensor.

Having said that, with the K&N Filter rushing more air into the engine, is it possible that a sensor is reading it and adjusting the performance of the bike at 190 kph? I doubt it, but perhaps (depending on year, and if the bike is modded with a Power Commander) this is an avenue to investigate. :icon_think:

[rockmeupto125]

Jetsetter...my waning memory tells me that you are in some godawful part of the world, and you've had trouble figuring out where your bike came from in previous situations. I'll tell you that Japanese bikes and some European as well as African bikes were restricted. European/African restrictions are typically in the intake or exhaust manifolds from what I've heard, and the Japanese bikes were restricted by the ECU.

To make sure that its nothing wrong with your power output, put the bike on the centerstand over a hard surface, and chock the front wheel. Fire it up, run it through the gears, and see if it pulls 300 kph with the tire in the air. If it does, you know there's something limiting the power output, as it doesn't take much power to run the wheel up to that speed. Its either flow restriction or fuel restriction, planned or unplanned. If it doesn't, you'll know that there's something in the electrics that stopping it at that speed...either on purpose, or do to something out of wack. If its running well at your normal speeds, there's nothing mechanical wrong with it. A slipped timing chain or damaged cam that would limit you power output would give you reduced power all through the rpm range, and you'd know it wasn't running right.

[Helvet]

Jetsetter...my waning memory tells me that you are in some godawful part of the world, and you've had trouble figuring out where your bike came from in previous situations. I'll tell you that Japanese bikes and some European as well as African bikes were restricted. European/African restrictions are typically in the intake or exhaust manifolds from what I've heard, and the Japanese bikes were restricted by the ECU.

To make sure that its nothing wrong with your power output, put the bike on the centerstand over a hard surface, and chock the front wheel. Fire it up, run it through the gears, and see if it pulls 300 kph with the tire in the air. If it does, you know there's something limiting the power output, as it doesn't take much power to run the wheel up to that speed. Its either flow restriction or fuel restriction, planned or unplanned. If it doesn't, you'll know that there's something in the electrics that stopping it at that speed...either on purpose, or do to something out of wack. If its running well at your normal speeds, there's nothing mechanical wrong with it. A slipped timing chain or damaged cam that would limit you power output would give you reduced power all through the rpm range, and you'd know it wasn't running right.

Good posting!

However, European bikes were also limited by the ECU. Mine was a 100hp version, and I corrected it by using another ECU. Now it's a full version again.... Only the carb.-versions were limited here by air-intake and carb-limiters (manifolds).

To make it even more confusing: the limited 100hp version would easily run over 240 kph (measured by Garmin).

[Warp11XX]

Rockme may know better than I as to the result of running the rear "unloaded" to top speed. I have been told in the past by an aquaintance, who is a tire testing engineer for Continental Rubber, that it is possible to have a catastrophic failure of a tire in this manner. According to him, tires are not designed to withstand the centrifugal loading imposed by running unloaded. This can cause belt separation and resulting disintegration at speed. This may be totally untrue and nothing but urban legend...

[Redbird]

Here's a question I don't think has been answered- has it ever gone over 190 kph?

[testrider]

Here's a question I don't think has been answered- has it ever gone over 190 kph?

Right. If it has never done over 190 km/h before, check your sprocket gearing.

How many teeth in your front and rear sprockets? May be it was a stunt

bike that has a 60-tooth rear sprocket.

[Jetsetter]

Hi again ,

Checked all thru the same things ,, still looks normal and runs the same.

I am now convinced it is limited electrically. I do not think its an intake or exhaust blockage given the fact that it pulls strongly all the way to 190kmh and seems like it just cuts out there , yet only cutting enough to hold it there,

remember , in any gear which means it isn't limited by revs and is it not one heck of a coincidence that it stops at 190 in 3,4,5 or 6th ? Its not the gearing as it pulls 10,000 RPM in 3rd doing 190 kmh.

As for where I am , It's Vietnam and there isn't a heck of a lot of places to go past 190. Seems if you believe in Buddism that you do not have to look when crossing a street or turning into a road as if you get hit and die it wasn't your fault and you are re-born anyway.

I could never match the engine numbers on the bike to anything. As for origin , I believe it was illegally brought into here originally. The only thing i can say about origin is the fact it has no head light switch, not sure how common this is .

Not game to remove the muffler , I would get done for sure and end up in a prison eating rice soup .

Has it ever done more that 190 kmh ???

I thought it had , but thinking back to everytime someone has asked me "what speed were you doing ?" I have always answered either 189,190 or 191. So , it would seem i never have gone above that.

The good news is that there is a Dyno up in HCM ,, costs $150 bucks to put the bike on there ,, but they'll do a PC-III with Dyno run for $485 USD. Looks like that is the way I am going to have to go although like everyone , watching the pennys due to being laid off.

Thanks for all opinions and helps ,, I am not giving up just yet and will keep tinkering , when i know more i will post it up,,

Thanks guys

[EVLXX]

Well, I believe your probably correct, it's probably electronically limited.... Like Krypty said before even I posted.

I tried to explain an alternative.... but that doesn't matter.

I remember reading a few yrs back that one of the members here had a bird in Japan I think, and it had a few things done to limit his power and top end.

Think one of the things were the ram air inlets. One was opened and the other was just for looks. Also the computer had a limiter on it.

Its been 4 or 5 yrs ago but I do remember him trying to convert his neutered bird into a real bird.

Now Rockmeup here has the best and simplest way for you to test the electrical limiter theory... and reguardless to the fear of spinning an unloaded tire, I would try this, and at least try an spin it up past 190 kmh.

Put in on the center stand, notch it up to 6th gear, and slowly rev it up, and see what happens.

Rockmeup is a smart man.... and very helpful.

Jetsetter...my waning memory tells me that you are in some godawful part of the world, and you've had trouble figuring out where your bike came from in previous situations. I'll tell you that Japanese bikes and some European as well as African bikes were restricted. European/African restrictions are typically in the intake or exhaust manifolds from what I've heard, and the Japanese bikes were restricted by the ECU.

To make sure that its nothing wrong with your power output, put the bike on the centerstand over a hard surface, and chock the front wheel. Fire it up, run it through the gears, and see if it pulls 300 kph with the tire in the air. If it does, you know there's something limiting the power output, as it doesn't take much power to run the wheel up to that speed. Its either flow restriction or fuel restriction, planned or unplanned. If it doesn't, you'll know that there's something in the electrics that stopping it at that speed...either on purpose, or do to something out of wack. If its running well at your normal speeds, there's nothing mechanical wrong with it. A slipped timing chain or damaged cam that would limit you power output would give you reduced power all through the rpm range, and you'd know it wasn't running right.

[cbrbear]

Was your front tire on the ground or in the air? If it was in the air then your air speed sensor needs adjustment you will probably going faster you just couldnt tell, if the front tire was on the ground then you need a new bike, ill give you 5 bucks for it. I mean come on who wants a bird after it hit a brick wall at 190kph.....lol oh and if the tires are cupped ill only give you 3.50.

[rockmeupto125]

Okay...what happens when you reach 190? Does the the bike stutter? From your description, it doesn't sound as though feels "topped out" or "that's all she's got," as you describe brisk acceleration to the 118 mph mark.

I suggest you take the bike out, run it up and note the rpm that it will pull in 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6....all except second presumably equaling 190.

Then bring it back, raise the rear, and repeat the same tests. On those days that I'm feeling particularly paranoid or cautious, I run a strap from one side of the swingarm, through the front rim, and back to the other side, making it impossible for the stand to swing back up, and the bike to come down. Make sure you are on a surface that keeps the rear wheel more than an inch off the ground. If you have to set the swingarm on something to raise it, use something large...the vibration of the bike running could cause the centerstand to "walk" off a block of wood or other small spacer. Use something that the bike will really have to travel more than a couple inches to fall off. You're not going to be running the bike for extended periods...it will take you longer to write down the numbers than it will to find them out. As far as the rear tire flinging a belt or something, if it can't handle that stress, I sure don't want to be running down the road on it. Again, you're only going to run the bike for a few seconds.

Now, check your road numbers against your roadside numbers. If its electrically related, they should be very close to each other, and your top speed is limited by the ECU. There is no gear sensor on the XX that I'm aware of....in other words, the ECU has no idea what gear you are in. The only means the ECU has to determine your speed is the speedo sensor, which runs directly off the transmission. The next step is harder. Pull up the tank, dig around in there and disconnect the speedo sensor. Repeat your roadside tests and see if you get the same results.

I don't believe I've run an XX without the speedo connector hooked up, so I can't verify that the ECU will let it run, but it should at least in default mode. If it runs in default, you should still be able to break the 190 barrier in the upper gears.

Do you have the part number from your ECU?