Spiegler Lines (problems... now with photos)

[XXBIRD]

I made the attempt to install the lines this morning. I practically took the bike apart using the excuse to have a good/easy access to everything. First, tackled the clutch line. Easy to take it out but the line marked as "clutch" appeared a bit too short to my eyes. Sure enough, it is so short that cannot follow the original line path. It needs at least two more inches to be slack not to stress near the banjo bolts. The part under the brake line attached to the outside of steering head doesn't even go where the original used to go from. I don' thave a handlebar riser.

The other issue is the bleeding nipples. They are too long. Almost about 1/4" of thread is sticking out once it is fully seated.

Anyone had started theirs yet?

I'll go back to garage and take some pics now.

[Iceman_40]

Easiest way is when you have taken off the original line match it up against the new one see how much difference is between them. If it's more than a small amount it's probably not going to reach.

[rickrad]

Ohe other issue is the bleeding nipples.

THAT would for sure be an issue with me also. Ouch!

[XXBIRD]

Easiest way is when you have taken off the original line match it up against the new one see how much difference is between them. If it's more than a small amount it's probably not going to reach.

I took it out and measured against the original one. The difference is 3" (45" original as closest as I can measure vs. 42" eyelet to eyelet with the Spiegler line).

[Kbird]

That Sucks,

I ordered my clutchline(Spiegler Line) 1.5 inches longer than stock which is 43.5 inches due to my heli bars. Seems that will be to short also.

Is there anyway of re-routing to make it fit?

[XXBIRD]

If you skip the place it is supposed to route through it makes a very tight fit but this is without risers.

These are the bleeding nipples. They don't look like a good replacement to me at all. It doesn't look right at all. And also, I noticed two of them have different threads than the rest.

[Kbird]

Thanks for the pics.

The larger diameter bleeders are for the clutch, the smaller ones for the calipers. This is what I gathered based on the invoice

So does the clutch line work, can you turn the wheel all the way left and right?

Maybe they are using the same clutch line for the Blackbird and FJR ?

[XXBIRD]

OK... I have temporarily finished (or I rather say attempted) to install the Spiegler lines after spending way too many hours to figure out and find alternative ways to make them work. Here is the list of the problems:

1) Colors do not match. I've ordered smoke lines, black fittings, black banjos. I get either of the smoke or black lines randomly. 3-way monifold is bare metal color (supposed to be black according to the part list as well).

2) 3-way manifold won't fit unless shaving off the little portruding nipple like piece from the place it's supposed to bolt. I used a dremmel to shave it off.

3) Clutch line is very tight - needs two more inches.

4) Line 1 is I would say only "right" one.

5) Line 2 is about 2-3" too long (rear master to rear caliper). The extra length can be only tucked away towards to shock which ends up in between the spring.

6) Line 3 is 54" in length but needs about at least 3-4" more to be able to route through the original clamp locations. Original line is 62" long.

7) Line 4 is OK

8) Line 5 is too short. It is a straight line from top port right caliper to 3-way manifold. It is literally stretched to mount but it is not even tight yet. It needs 3/4".

9) Line 6 needs another 2-3" to make it right and wrong color.

10) Line 7 is the two piece one with the middle eyelet which is mounted inside port of the secondary master against the right fork. The middle eyelet is straight on both sides but needs to be bent backward on the top part. Fitting is rubbing against the fork. The other half from caliper to the secondary master eyelet is too short. Plastice sleeve poped out under the balck tension sleeve next to the fitting.

11) Line 8 which goes to the delay valve from the left caliper is about 1.5" too long.

12) Line 9 is OK if you do not follow the original mounting locations.

13) Bleed valves: None of them had dust caps. I've got seven of them (one for the clutch six for the calipers.) I've got two in one size (thread wise) and five in another size. To begin with the smaller five are the wrong thread size. Also the length of the thread is supposed ot be 16mm but they are 23mm long. they stick out like a sore thumb.

In summary, I am dissapointed despite of the wait after the order. I am sure they will fix the problems by replacing the wrong color/length lines and replacing the bleed valves with the corect ones. My bike is out of commission right now till I figure this out. I am not going to go through the trouble to install the original lines back, bleed the system and put the body work back to do it all over again. removing the lines from back to front is a real bitch.

I'll post some pictures to justify/clarify teh points I made once I get a chance (I need to resize them to make it suitable for posting.) There goes my Memorial weekend (and my Julie's as well since if she didn't help out I would still be sitting in the garage cursing). And no, I didn't drink even a drop of beer or any other beverages during this torture. I wonder what a shop would do with these lines.

There is two weeks and a day to Hookers for me. I have serious doubts that I'll get replacements in time.

[Northman]

Has anybody else attempted to install theirs?

Sucks about your kit, Ruhi. Have you contacted University Motors, yet?

[willxx23]

That sux Ruhi. :x

I hope they make it right for you soon.

[SD Marc]

I think I know what the problem is...

And no, I didn't drink even a drop of beer or any other beverages during this torture.

Seriously, I am very sorry to hear this. If there is anything I can do to help let me know Ruhi.

[Kbird]

I bought the same kit, but added 1.5 inches for the Heli bars.

Have not installed them yet and not sure if I will after what Ruhi went through. Hopefully this is a isolated problem and Speigler will make it right.

[Redbird]

Just got done installing Peter's today.

Lines were, for the most part, the right length, though I'd agree they don't follow stock routing or mounting points exactly.

The "instructions" blow major chunks. Orientation of the lines and which end is which is found out by trial and error- time consuming to say the least.

No problems with the manifold on Peter's bike, bolted right up, though it is indeed silver.

A lot of the lines required twisting of the fittings. Spiegler was kind enough to include holding blocks to accomplish this, but it's a major PITA.

Nice kit, but a lot of work. Bleeding linked brakes sucks- his still isn't to where it should be- we're going to bleed it again tomorrow.

This is not a project for the casual mechanic. It ain't rocket science but the complexity of the system and the lack of decent instructions is going to challenge some who aren't really familiar with the system on this bike and how it works. A service manual is a must have.

De-linking is soooo much easier...... :twisted:

[birdie_xx]

And Tim is DA MAN ! 8)

Thanks Tim !!!

I agree, line #2 (I think) is to long and the clutch line could be a bit longer, but it worked...

Now can't tell you how the whole set works, because around Midnight, when we were seriously worn out, putting the bike together - on the last panel, where my jastek plug is, and couple switches for the heated grips and hazard lights - the headlight blew and the battery died ! :shock:

I shorted something, so have to go back today....

I actually did that on purpose, to ride Tim's bike home.... :twisted:

Hope the rest of you have better experience....

BTW, Warchild's installation was verry helpfull, but he missed couple of crucial photos..... :wink: :twisted:

Thanks Dale !

Cheers,

[XXBIRD]

Here are some pictures of the install. They pretty much tell the story line. Lines 5, 6 and 7 are the wrong colors and/or with length or banjo angle problems. Almost all of the lines required twisting the banjos. Front port of the proportioning valve (under the seat) originally do not have a banjo bolt which required a bit head scratching. There is one banjo bolt which is cut to shorten for that location. Overall, the kit is complete albeit with non-mataching color lines with not so well cut lengths. I'll find out what they are to say when I call tomorrow. Out of the box. for my set, I wouldn't even give grade D for the set.

[X1rider]

I ran into the same problems. Inconsistant colors on the bolts and fittings, lengths to short or to long, grinding the tab off, and a leak on top of all that. See my post in the Pub.

And this company is T.U.V. approved? Hanz and Franz must have been tipping the Schnapps when these kits were "Q.C.ed".

I am dissappointed that after waiting 2 months; this not what I expected.

Hope they get my #6 replacement line here ASAP. I have ride on Saturday.

[TechnoGecko]

Seems like the Spiegler kit has quite a few issues to be resolved. You wonder if they even installed it on a blackbird to see if it ever worked. Good luck!

.. I know I'd be pissed if I had dished out the kinda money you guys did for this kit and ran in to all these problems.

[Dano]

Now I'm seriously worried! Can someone post the stock line lenghts when they have them off. #1-9 plus clutch.

I won't have a chance to do the install untill after Hookers and want to check the lengths of the new lines vs stock so I can get a word in with Gary before then if there is a big difference in the lengths.

Can you post details of your conversation regarding this when you speak to Gary Mc Coy.

Dale you replaced yours? Can you measure the stock line lenghts and post.

Thanx

Dan

[X1rider]

I haven't had a response from Spiegler yet. 3 calls and an email. I keep getting a recording.

customer service?

[Dano]

Re: answer machine. Probably catching up from the Holiday.

I realize measuring the stock lines would be a pain. Probably have to tape a string along the line then remove and measure. But it would be sweet to know their lengths. Looking at my schedule it will be Sept. before I can take on the SS line install.

Dale did you have to grind off and custom fit, or did yours swap out as you would expect?

db

[Guest rockmeupto125]

Ruhi.........thanks for taking the time to document this. I'm sure you are frustrated and taking the extra time to do this may not be high on your list, but it may help a lot of other people out. I strongly urge all who ordered to carefully inspect their parts when received. Nobody here should be paying for a major fuckup on the part of the supplier. This equipment wasn't cheap at all.

[jimmystartup]

Maybe the fact that there has been no reponse from Speigler should be fact enough...but does anyone know what their return policy is?

[matey_peeps]

Put mine on last nite.

Exactly what I had to do:

Mine looks the same:

What could I expect from the aftermarket. Shit that fit? Nahhhhh that'd be too much to ask. Mine at least match. Well I think they do anyway, it's a bit dungeon-esque in my shop.

Still, that's a lot of fucking coin to drop on something that looks like it was made by an 8th grade shop class.

[birdie_xx]

Matey, if you compare your photo to Dale's, you can see that your lines are reversed....

There were few lines, that Tim and I had to unbolt and switch ends...

The instructions suck and don't tell you which end goes where.

We didn't have to grind anything....

Sorry to hear about your problems. I'm afraid, that maybe because of the volume of orders, Spiegler rushed their production a bit.

Hope you can sort it out.....

Cheers,

[XXBIRD]

Maybe the fact that there has been no reponse from Speigler should be fact enough...but does anyone know what their return policy is?

I couldn't say, by no means, this true. I first called Gary from University Motors 6:15am West Coast time. He was absoultely receptive and he assured me that he would make sure that it will be taken care of. He called me back in ten minutes to give me an update which was the person in charge at the Spiegler wouldn't be in till afternoon. Instead, gave me another name and asked me to call him. He again emphasized that I would have replacements in no time (next day or two). Then, I called Spiegler. John at Spiegler looked up the details which I've emailed to them and asked me to take some more measurements and call him back. He was going to make sure that Matias is going to know about it as soon as he comes in. So far, I have not received any negative response from neither of them.

In terms of comparing to Dale's install, here is one of his pictures for the right side caliper lines to 3-way manifold and the delay valve from the lower port;

and mine which shows the same line which is not even tightened yet ( I was afraid of pulling out the banjo fitting as the top part pulls the line more as it is screwed into the 3-way manifold;

I don't think the sets are at identical lengths. In such a short line, 1/2" length makes a big difference. It is true that you can run the lines from point A to B but if they are not long enough with extra to prevent binding or teh best possible route, I would consider it ill designed or manufactured. Overall results remains to be seen, hopefully very very soon.