Injector issue? Car Advice Please

[RXX]

For the last year or so my MINI has a loud single tick on cold startup. EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE. It goes completely away in about a minute or two, by the time I get out of my neighborhood.

I assume an injector is getting sticky. The car is my daily driver, but one week a month it sits at my office when I am driving a “call” car.

Last week I got in after a week on call and started driving home. It was missing on one cylinder. It did not go into limp mode so I said fuck it and kept on driving. About a mile out it cleared.

Is this an obvious bad injector?  278,000 miles on not top-tier ethanol free premium gas. I run Techron through it every few thousand miles.

Should I try to clean it or replace it? Probably will DIY. Should I replace them all (fuckers are pricey)?

 

[tomek]

 I don't think first and second part of your post are related. First looks like hydraulic lash adjuster/ lifter whatever you wanna call issue

 

 Second, it would be, obviously, fuel or ignition. I won't elaborate any further because I'm totally unfamiliar with your Mini. 

 Maybe just throw on it fresh set of spark plugs and ignition coils. Not that expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18 by tomek

[superhawk996]

Is it DI or port injection?  I doubt the injectors could do anything to cause a tick.  If the motor's really worn the imbalance caused by a misfire might cause ticking, but I don't think I've ever experienced it.  If it's DI and the intake valves are gunked up and leaking they might be able to cause a tick/chirp type noise along with a misfire.

[RXX]

6 hours ago, tomek said:

 I don't think first and second part of your post are related. First looks like hydraulic lash adjuster/ lifter whatever you wanna call issue

 

 Second, it would be, obviously, fuel or ignition. I won't elaborate any further because I'm totally unfamiliar with your Mini. 

 Maybe just throw on it fresh set of spark plugs and ignition coils. Not that expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

Outmotoring has an ignition set they just started advertising. Includes coil pak. It has been probably 10 years since I last replaced one. Thanks, will try that next week.

Edited May 18 by RXX

[RXX]

2 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Is it DI or port injection?  I doubt the injectors could do anything to cause a tick.  If the motor's really worn the imbalance caused by a misfire might cause ticking, but I don't think I've ever experienced it.  If it's DI and the intake valves are gunked up and leaking they might be able to cause a tick/chirp type noise along with a misfire.

Not DI.

 

I will try new ignition stuff. Thanks. 

 

 

[The Krypt Keeper]

Auto Stethoscope, listen on startup for general location and see if you can pinpoint it down. 

 

I have even used a short 2ft paint roller extension stick to pinpoint problems in the past. Press against your ear and listen. 

 

Naturally keep digits and loose clothing from belts and other spinning crap. 

[RXX]

10 hours ago, The Krypt Keeper said:

Auto Stethoscope, listen on startup for general location and see if you can pinpoint it down. 

 

I have even used a short 2ft paint roller extension stick to pinpoint problems in the past. Press against your ear and listen. 

 

Naturally keep digits and loose clothing from belts and other spinning crap. 

Good idea. I have thought of doing that, but it is such an intermittent event by the time I get home I have forgotten about it. Until the dead cylinder incident. And the stethoscope is in the barn so it is even easier to forget.

[superhawk996]

12 minutes ago, RXX said:

Until the dead cylinder incident.

Even if it didn't trigger a check engine light there's likely to be a "pending" code that will tell you which cylinder it was.  From there I'd look at the plugs to see if it might be worn plugs or something else.  If you replace the plugs I recommend OEM unless there's evidence of something that's better for it.  They don't have to come from a stealership, just the same brand and number plugs.

 

It's unlikely to be a coil, when they crap out it's usually permanent.  I've seen some cases where they stop working cold but work as they heat up.  The inverse could happen, but I don't recall ever experiencing it.

[RXX]

45 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

Even if it didn't trigger a check engine light there's likely to be a "pending" code that will tell you which cylinder it was.  From there I'd look at the plugs to see if it might be worn plugs or something else.  If you replace the plugs I recommend OEM unless there's evidence of something that's better for it.  They don't have to come from a stealership, just the same brand and number plugs.

 

It's unlikely to be a coil, when they crap out it's usually permanent.  I've seen some cases where they stop working cold but work as they heat up.  The inverse could happen, but I don't recall ever experiencing it.

I will pull the codes today. I don’t look at the check engine light anymore. I put an aftermarket manifold and cat on it last year and the rear O2 sensor does not play nice. I currently have 5 lights that stay on.

[tomek]

12 minutes ago, RXX said:

I will pull the codes today. I don’t look at the check engine light anymore. I put an aftermarket manifold and cat on it last year and the rear O2 sensor does not play nice. I currently have 5 lights that stay on.

Spacer for rear O2 would, probably, fix your engine light.

 Goes between pipe/cat and 02 sensor. 

 

 

 

[superhawk996]

Spacer as shown, or "MIL eliminator" which is a simple electronic fooler.  What I usually do is cover some of the holes that let exhaust into the sensor.  I've never researched how much of it to cover, I usually do about 3/4 of it, maybe more.  A dot of weld on each hole with the mig welder, or use a spring type hose clamp and grind off the tabs so it'll fit in the hole.

[RXX]

22 hours ago, tomek said:

Spacer for rear O2 would, probably, fix your engine light.

 Goes between pipe/cat and 02 sensor. 

 

 

 

https://www.racdyn-usa.com/PROD/130+10+10+013.html
 

Didn’t help. I can get my ECU flashed as part of a tune that will get rid of it. $800or yellow light????

Edited - I spoke with tech support at Racing Dynamics. It is their product and they sold me a bung that said should work but no guarantees. I have been dealing with this since I replaced the manifold/cat. I am sort of resigned. My air bag, ABS, TPI, DCS have all been on for 2+ years. I do not need dash lights.

Edited May 20 by RXX

[jon haney]

6 hours ago, RXX said:

https://www.racdyn-usa.com/PROD/130+10+10+013.html
 

Didn’t help. I can get my ECU flashed as part of a tune that will get rid of it. $800or yellow light????

Edited - I spoke with tech support at Racing Dynamics. It is their product and they sold me a bung that said should work but no guarantees. I have been dealing with this since I replaced the manifold/cat. I am sort of resigned. My air bag, ABS, TPI, DCS have all been on for 2+ years. I do not need dash lights.

So, let me get this straight.  This little O2 bung device is supposed to fool your O2 sensor into believing the catalytic convertor is doing it's job properly?

I put new aftermarket cats on my son's Frontier pickup, and after a few months starting getting the same "cat efficiency code, bank 1) that I got when the original went bad.  Would be cool, if this little device fixed the check engine light, as in "let it show for more serious problems".

[tomek]

19 minutes ago, jon haney said:

So, let me get this straight.  This little O2 bung device is supposed to fool your O2 sensor into believing the catalytic convertor is doing it's job properly?

 

 Yes, the idea is to keep the tip of O2 sensor out of exhaust steam. Usually it works, at least on older generation vehicles. 

[tomek]

 Btw, curious in what position RXX installed that thing. Less exhaust gasses getting there, the better, I guess. 

 

 

[RXX]

3 minutes ago, tomek said:

 Btw, curious in what position RXX installed that thing. Less exhaust gasses getting there, the better, I guess. 

 

 

 

It was installed by the shop that installed the mini-cat. I can only assume they knew what they were doing. As time goes on, I get less and less impressed by them. I was in their first cohort of customers and there has been a shift in employee attitudes. I had never had anyone else but me work on the car but just do not have the time anymore.

But there are some pretty exotic cars there from time to time. Mine is extremely dowdy next to a lot of them.

 

[RXX]

39 minutes ago, jon haney said:

So, let me get this straight.  This little O2 bung device is supposed to fool your O2 sensor into believing the catalytic convertor is doing it's job properly?

I put new aftermarket cats on my son's Frontier pickup, and after a few months starting getting the same "cat efficiency code, bank 1) that I got when the original went bad.  Would be cool, if this little device fixed the check engine light, as in "let it show for more serious problems".

 

 

https://www.racdyn-usa.com/CTGY/EXHAUSTACCESSORIES.html

 

This was a lot cheaper than the next alternative, the ECU flash/tune. But the flash would supposedly do wonders for performance, which I am not particularly interested in improving.

I can clear the sensor light but it only lasts about a day.

[SwampNut]

2 hours ago, jon haney said:

This little O2 bung device is supposed to fool your O2 sensor into believing the catalytic convertor is doing it's job properly?

 

Well, not exactly.  The higher flow is fooling the O2 sensor and making it think something is out of order (it sort of is).  The spacer reduces the sensor's perceived flow and puts it back in normal range.

[jon haney]

3 hours ago, tomek said:

 Yes, the idea is to keep the tip of O2 sensor out of exhaust steam. Usually it works, at least on older generation vehicles. 

Surprised I haven't heard of this thing before.  Modern vehicles usually have one O2 sensor before the CAT, and one after.  The first is for correcting fuel mixture, and the second is just for making sure the CAT is working properly.  Is that correct?

If so, then this little device let's you use a cheap replacement CAT that may or may not be up to factory specs?

Because that is pretty much what I did (replaced all 4 O2 sensors as well), and the computer don't like it (well, it did for a week, or so).

No way I'm spending $3K for CAT's on a $7K truck.

Edited May 20 by jon haney

[tomek]

36 minutes ago, jon haney said:

Surprised I haven't heard of this thing before.  Modern vehicles usually have one O2 sensor before the CAT, and one after.  The first is for correcting fuel mixture, and the second is just for making sure the CAT is working properly.  Is that correct?

If so, then this little device let's you use a cheap replacement CAT that may or may not be up to factory specs?

Because that is pretty much what I did (replaced all 4 O2 sensors as well), and the computer don't like it (well, it did for a week, or so).

No way I'm spending $3K for CAT's on a $7K truck.

ECUs are touchy about O2 replacement sensors. Aftermarket is hit or miss. Did you get OEMs?

 

 As the rest of your post, spacers are practically free, so it is just labor, although it could be a bitch on some cars. Nothing to lose, just try it. 

 

 We do have emission test in Illinois. Once every two years. OBD only. No visual or sniffer.

 One of the cats in my Volvo is weak, I would get check engine light. Installed spacers( inline six, two downstream cats), it cured CAT codes, although now sometimes lean condition code pops up, but only if you do 80 mph or better for more than 15 minutes or so. City driving it will disappear. So you know what not to do before testing. 😆 

 

 As a matter of fact I passed emission test today. 211 k miles. Xc70 3.2 atmo. Original cats and sensors. Getting another new to me XC70 with 45 k miles. Turbo inline 5. 

Edited May 20 by tomek

[jon haney]

23 minutes ago, tomek said:

ECUs are touchy about O2 replacement sensors. Aftermarket is hit or miss. Did you get OEMs?

 

 As the rest of your post, spacers are practically free, so it is just labor, although it could be a bitch on some cars. Nothing to lose, just try it. 

 

 We do have emission test in Illinois. Once every two years. OBD only. No visual or sniffer.

 One of the cats in my Volvo is weak, I would get check engine light. Installed spacers( inline six, two downstream cats), it cured CAT codes, although now sometimes lean condition code pops up, but only if you do 80 mph or better for more than 15 minutes or so. City driving it will disappear. So you know what not to do before testing. 😆 

 

 As a matter of fact I passed emission test today. 211 k miles. Xc70 3.2 atmo. Original cats and sensors. Getting another new to me XC70 with 45 k miles. Turbo inline 5. 

Not from OEM, but Denso's, which I believe is what Nissan sells.  No emissions test here.  Just want to prevent that false code.

[tomek]

Well, I'd definitely try O2 spacers. It is just couple bucks.

[superhawk996]

I've heard of people stacking two spacers to solve the problem.

[RXX]

6 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

I've heard of people stacking two spacers to solve the problem.

 

So I should try that? 

[superhawk996]

5 hours ago, RXX said:

 

So I should try that? 

I would, or install the electronic fooler if space is limited.  I've also seen 90 degree adapters to deal with space issues.

 

Something else to keep in mind is that if the wires are oily/grungy the sensor can read wrong and might show a dead cat even if it's good.

This probably isn't the perfect textbook way to explain it- the sensor uses outside air to function and it does it by breathing through the wires.  Way back they had a sample tube/breather hole in the sensor's body.  I believe this is why the spacer works, even tho the sensor tip is still seeing pure exhaust, the spacer changes the percentage of outside air to exhaust.  Restricting the exhaust while keeping the same amount of outside air is kinda like leaning out the mixture that's acting on the sensor making it think the exhaust is cleaner.  If it can't breath it'll show the opposite, a richer/dirtier mixture.