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45 minutes ago, XXitanium said:

I may have missed, how did brake bleeding go?


It’s happening this evening hopefully, have a friend coming round to assist.  Going to do the clutch as well, the colour of the fluid in there is darker than the fork legs. 

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So a full week of playing with the bird has yielded some fairly decent results.  Currently all that is left is to bleed the brakes, revisit the petrol tank hoses, mount the cans, change the oil, and f

I added a computer fan to the fin side of the volt regulator, always on. My imagination tells me it keeps it cooler.

You do when you drop the bulb holders down deep in the cowl 😪

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36 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

Is that a brand name, interested?

The company is Tru Tension and they do the chain monkey tensioner and a smart little laser alignment tool.  Link below: 

Chain Monkey / Tensioner

 

it took me about 5 minutes to tension and align my new chain and sprockets.

 

39 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

Who hasn't done that type of stuff?  At first I kick myself and then realize it is just time, no harm. 


I know what you mean, I put myself under a lot of pressure last week to get things done, worked morning until midnight a few times which is where the mistakes came from I guess.

 

41 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

Your project looks like it is going great!


Thank you, once the work is done it has to be tested and the registration moved to the island, a few days really.  Hopefully I might get out on it this year, already told my better half she’s not going on it until I get a feel for it since the changes, I suspect it will handle very differently and there should be a bit more power as well now the vacuum system is sealed.  A case of learning my way around the bike again.

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7 hours ago, JaBr said:

The company is Tru Tension and they do the chain monkey tensioner and a smart little laser alignment tool.  Link below: 

Chain Monkey / Tensioner

 

it took me about 5 minutes to tension and align my new chain and sprockets.

 

Thanks. I need that laser alignment tool.  How you use the tensioner?

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The tensioner is really easy, you set it up so the bottom of the dome is in line with setting 1 and push the rubber washer as close to the dome as you can get it and it will act as a marker, screw the dome out as far as it goes.  Loosen the wheel nut then hook the tensioner over the lower part of the chain and line the dome up with the centre of a link.  Screw the dome up until the washer touches the bar and that’s your slack set.  Now use the alignment adjuster screws to get the chain tight.  Once that’s done use the laser alignment tool to align the wheel.    Torque wheel nut to 93nm and you’re done.  5 minute job.

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On 11/3/2020 at 11:55 AM, XXitanium said:

I may have missed, how did brake bleeding go?

 

So the full brake bleeding story...

 

Bear in mind the system was completely empty, new brake lines fitted.  Much swearing ensued until I invited a friend round to help.

 

Initially I tried somewhat unsuccessfully to bleed the brakes myself following the instructions in the service manual, at this point I nipped out and bought a cheap compressor as I didn't own one but did own a brake bleeder that uses one,  long story, anyways.  I tried doing it with the compressor with limited success, in the end it was a combination of syringe, pumping and using the compressor that won out.  When I/we pumped the pedal / lever we would give it at least 10 pumps before opening the bleed nipple to build up some pressure. 

 

First step is to do the rears, basically bleed the centre nipples front and rear one at a time, we did the rear OK and got reasonable pedal, so next we moved to the centres on the front.  We tried pushing fluid in through the bleed nipple with the syringe but the valves stopped it somehow.  Getting fluid to the right was fine, clear fluid came out, but the left wouldn't bleed properly, I was getting more air than fluid, it turned out that the pipe over the top of the front mudguard had an airlock in it that none of our methods would draw through so we cracked the pipe open at the joint and carefully bled it that way, it took 4 good pumps of the pedal to get all the air out of there but it's in good order now.  Next step was to do the outer bleed nipple on the rear, again this is bled by activating the footpedal, it's a linked system but has two completely separate hydraulic circuits.  It appears that the rear is activated by a piston that attaches to the left front caliper plate.

 

The fronts were far more straightforward, once again we had to crack open the mudguard pipe to get an airlock out but other than that we simply started with the syringe drawing the air through, used the compressor, and then pumped the lever for good measure.

 

We have good lever pressure but the whole thing needs to be bedded in now.

 

More bleeding fun... the clutch!

 

So I some how caught the clutch lever a few times when moving around the bike, as my slave cylinder was not attached to the bike it pushed the piston right out.  I noticed a puddle of fluid under the bike then realised what had happened.  I built it back up but having looked at what fluid remained in the reservoir it was obvious a change was needed.  Out came the trusty syringe and I drew out all of the dark brown fluid.  I cleaned out the reservoir and put some nice new RBF600 in, slowly I drew that through using the syringe and keeping the reservoir topped off until the fluid was clean coming out.  Next I pulled a bit more with the compressor, finally a few pumps for good measure.  Clutch lever is nice and firm now :) 

 

 

 

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In their normal position a small amount of air can remain in the clutch and front brake masters even after a full bleeding.  Turn the bars left and lean the bike left so that the handle end is even or slightly higher than the hose end of the master and pump.  Do the same to the right for the clutch.  Any air will rise into the reservoir.

 

If you do it with the cap off you can see if there was air, but pump slowly, if you squeeze a little too fast it'll shoot a small stream of fluid up that can get all over stuff.

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1 hour ago, superhawk996 said:

In their normal position a small amount of air can remain in the clutch and front brake masters even after a full bleeding.  Turn the bars left and lean the bike left so that the handle end is even or slightly higher than the hose end of the master and pump.  Do the same to the right for the clutch.  Any air will rise into the reservoir.

 

If you do it with the cap off you can see if there was air, but pump slowly, if you squeeze a little too fast it'll shoot a small stream of fluid up that can get all over stuff.

 

Thanks for the tip, was already doing that and did get some air out, although not much from the brakes, clutch had a bit more in it though.

 

I'm happy with where I've got to now, next step is fit cans, start her up, and then once warm do an oil change.  I think she'll be fine on the oil as when the coolant was partially drained it looke like new.  It's just the less common, or expensive at the dealers,  service items that seem to have been missed by previous owners, bearings and suchlike.  I've ordered a jaws CCT as well, I thought the rattle on tickover was the clutch basket like my VFR but not worth taking the chance for such a low cost item.

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Something I've found helpful to tweak out just that last bit of softness is to do what Oscar said, and then "flick" the levers pretty hard.  Seems to get a remaining tiny bubble sometimes.  Tapping them inward, and then also pressing and releasing it hard.

 

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1 hour ago, JaBr said:

 

 I've ordered a jaws CCT as well, I thought the rattle on tickover was the clutch basket like my VFR but not worth taking the chance for such a low cost item.

The CCT death rattle is very pronounced at 3-4000rpm. If it rattles at idle and not at 3-4000prm then it most likely is simply the clutch basket. 

Incidentally, the CCT can be taken apart, 1 or 2 turns added to the spring and reassembled, to give it a second life. 

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10 hours ago, fizzy said:

The CCT death rattle is very pronounced at 3-4000rpm. If it rattles at idle and not at 3-4000prm then it most likely is simply the clutch basket. 

Incidentally, the CCT can be taken apart, 1 or 2 turns added to the spring and reassembled, to give it a second life. 

I've read that the PAIR valves can also rattle at idle/near idle, I think it was specifically said they only do it cold.  My '97 has a cold idle rattle that doesn't seem to be clutch related, possibly the PAIR.

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6 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

I've read that the PAIR valves can also rattle at idle/near idle, I think it was specifically said they only do it cold.  My '97 has a cold idle rattle that doesn't seem to be clutch related, possibly the PAIR.

When I finally get the cans on and start it I'll put my ear by the clutch cover and have a listen.  If that's not the rattle then I'll look further.  Hadn't heard of a PAIR valve until you mentioned it so I looked around the net, not sure mine even has one.  I would expect to see something in this image?

 

Mine's a UK model, did they have them fitted?

 

IMG_4908.thumb.JPEG.66a5b81e550a503da6efa1f00aa96d79.JPEG

 

IMG_4699.thumb.jpeg.9484cb9d00a1ed35c3dec678e9125895.jpeg

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17 hours ago, fizzy said:

The CCT death rattle is very pronounced at 3-4000rpm. If it rattles at idle and not at 3-4000prm then it most likely is simply the clutch basket. 

Incidentally, the CCT can be taken apart, 1 or 2 turns added to the spring and reassembled, to give it a second life. 

I'll have to run her up to find that out, cans to fit and then she hopefully starts.  Don't remember any rattle at those revs but it's been a while :) 

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17 hours ago, SwampNut said:

Something I've found helpful to tweak out just that last bit of softness is to do what Oscar said, and then "flick" the levers pretty hard.  Seems to get a remaining tiny bubble sometimes.  Tapping them inward, and then also pressing and releasing it hard.

 

Good tip, thank you :) 

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2 hours ago, JaBr said:

Hadn't heard of a PAIR valve until you mentioned it so I looked around the net, not sure mine even has one. 

Number 2 & 5 in this diagram. 

https://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/506c1f52f870023420a2f47e/cylinder-head-cover

Edited by blackhawkxx
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3 hours ago, JaBr said:

Hadn't heard of a PAIR valve until you mentioned it so I looked around the net, not sure mine even has one.  I would expect to see something in this image?

They're in the valve cover under small covers that have a hose connecting them to the air box.

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These are pretty good at finding engine noises, otherwise put the handle of a screwdriver in your ear and press the tip to the suspect area of the engine. My first bb had a noisey clutch, nothing to worry about.

 

https://www.tradetools.com/product-range/auto-and-mechanics-tools/automotive-specialty/toledo-stethoscope?gclid=CjwKCAiA17P9BRB2EiwAMvwNyEN7xCnbEogH6ldJA-LYZ1jW7sAV1RZZg4EdidzXfB_xcmsZS4bqtxoCXgsQAvD_BwE

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8 hours ago, paul99xx said:

These are pretty good at finding engine noises, otherwise put the handle of a screwdriver in your ear and press the tip to the suspect area of the engine. My first bb had a noisey clutch, nothing to worry about.

 

https://www.tradetools.com/product-range/auto-and-mechanics-tools/automotive-specialty/toledo-stethoscope?gclid=CjwKCAiA17P9BRB2EiwAMvwNyEN7xCnbEogH6ldJA-LYZ1jW7sAV1RZZg4EdidzXfB_xcmsZS4bqtxoCXgsQAvD_BwE

Thank you, I have thought of getting a stethoscope in the past but like many things it was not urgent at the time so it got left.  I'll see what's available in the UK as thats much cheaper postage 

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So a few more parts arrived this week, hoping to get these on tomorrow and finally get the last few bits finished.  Have booked an appointment for the Manx test but may well be new year now before I can get it in.  Once that is done I can register the bird here and ride it again at last.

 

Petrol hose for the tank overflow, conspicuously absent from my bird.

IMG_4943.thumb.JPEG.4ea277e1b727c1dc617b03cc2e16c5b9.JPEG

 

Rhino Hide stonechip protection film for the forks, also known as helicopter film as it was originally used for helicopter blades.

IMG_4945.thumb.JPEG.039a6ffb30a3f33af03e1d1dc0b84f05.JPEG

 

Jaws upgraded Cam Chain Tensioner

IMG_4944.thumb.JPEG.a4ef0ec89007a649fb5403987462df9b.JPEG

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1 minute ago, superhawk996 said:

Clutch rattle can usually be identified by squeezing the lever, the sound will change or go away.  Then put it in gear and it should be silent.

It does go away with the clutch in, 64k miles but wasn't planning on changing the clutch yet, it's barely run in 🙄

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All bikes are susceptible to having clutch rattle, it doesn't indicate a problem unless it's unusually loud for the particular bike model.  My '01 with around 50K miles had obvious noise, not loud, but it was clearly evident.  My current '97 with under 30k miles doesn't seem to have it, but it also has a louder exhaust that might be hiding it.  And it has an aftermarket cable clutch mechanism, and possibly an aftermarket clutch which might play into it.

 

If the carburetors/throttle bodies are out of synch the power pulses will be uneven which can make for more clutch rattle.  My first '97 with about 50k was WAY out of synch, and had a much noisier clutch 'till I synched it.  Wear of the clutch basket & plates will increase the rattle.

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13 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

All bikes are susceptible to having clutch rattle, it doesn't indicate a problem unless it's unusually loud for the particular bike model.  My '01 with around 50K miles had obvious noise, not loud, but it was clearly evident.  My current '97 with under 30k miles doesn't seem to have it, but it also has a louder exhaust that might be hiding it.  And it has an aftermarket cable clutch mechanism, and possibly an aftermarket clutch which might play into it.

 

If the carburetors/throttle bodies are out of synch the power pulses will be uneven which can make for more clutch rattle.  My first '97 with about 50k was WAY out of synch, and had a much noisier clutch 'till I synched it.  Wear of the clutch basket & plates will increase the rattle.

I'll probably stump up for getting the carbs balanced then at some point, I've had the VFR done but the bird is as I bought her.  Both the VFR and the Bird seem to suffer from this, it's a shame because apart from a few relatively straightforward to fix known issues they're great bikes.

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5 hours ago, JaBr said:

Rhino Hide stonechip protection film for the forks, also known as helicopter film as it was originally used for helicopter blades.

Post a photo of it installed if you can.  I want to see how noticeable it is.

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On 11/13/2020 at 7:38 AM, JaBr said:

I'll probably stump up for getting the carbs balanced then at some point, I've had the VFR done but the bird is as I bought her.  Both the VFR and the Bird seem to suffer from this, it's a shame because apart from a few relatively straightforward to fix known issues they're great bikes.

The 'right' way is with gauges, I used a piece of wire as a feeler gauge.  It ran great & smooth so I never bothered to re-do it the 'right' way.  Pretty easy, once the airbox is out of the way.  To bad we didn't have this conversation before you re-assembled it.

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On 11/13/2020 at 8:14 PM, blackhawkxx said:

Post a photo of it installed if you can.  I want to see how noticeable it is.

Will do as soon as it’s done 👍

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