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Dumb 4WD Question


rockmeupto125
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When they make a selectable Lock, auto-lock, LS, open then I would buy it for mostly any price.

 

There's a spot up to Crown King where often the lockers are needed, but also you have a hard left at the top.  Timing and angle are key, and the terrain changes all the time, so it's fun.

 

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1 hour ago, SwampNut said:

When they make a selectable Lock, auto-lock, LS, open then I would buy it for mostly any price.

 

This would be like a diabetic being able to have cake, eat it, gain no weight, and not elevate their blood sugar.

Might be possible to simulate that with a vehicle that has an electric motor at each wheel, and some fancy controls.  I'm sure you have dreamed of this, no?

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5 hours ago, jon haney said:

This would be like a diabetic being able to have cake, eat it, gain no weight, and not elevate their blood sugar.

Might be possible to simulate that with a vehicle that has an electric motor at each wheel, and some fancy controls.  I'm sure you have dreamed of this, no?

You know what else can simulate that?  The retarded active braking/traction systems.

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80% maybe?  The Jeep system was really damn good.  But it did meet places where nothing on the Rubicon, or at least the ways I tried it, really worked great.  It's one of those spots on the CK back road that has a go-around so I ran it repeatedly one day.  It was also not as good as a locker when you'd high center and had a tire or two totally off the ground.

 

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19 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

You know what else can simulate that?  The retarded active braking/traction systems.

Of course, it "can", but with production vehicles, it will always be a poor simulation, because they must "dumb it down" for the average driver.

My dream is that all production vehicles would be completely programmable for personal preferences (within reason).  Throttle response, traction control, stability control, cruise control, and settings would default to your key as soon as you start the vehicle.   Yes, I know this technology is already available in some, but not all vehicles, like trucks.  Every time I get into mine, cruise on, TC off.  Sometimes I forget.  Truck likes to remind me with a huge stumble when pulling out from the neighborhood into rush hour traffic.😡

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7 minutes ago, jon haney said:

because they must "dumb it down" for the average driver.

 

My experience with such systems is limited to Jeep JK (gen 2) and JT/JL.  It's far from dumb.  What do you mean?  The JK had limited adjustability, the JT/JL had lots of options along with the new "off road cruise control" which is pretty amazing.

 

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19 hours ago, jon haney said:

Of course, it "can", but with production vehicles, it will always be a poor simulation, because they must "dumb it down" for the average driver.

They might be limited in their ability, or they limit it on purpose for various reasons.  Simulating a locker with brakes is challenging.  Under steady throttle and traction it's relatively easy, but in a dynamic situation it's not.  If a vehicle employed a good LS/torque biasing differential along with the electronic system it would do way better.

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22 hours ago, SwampNut said:

 

My experience with such systems is limited to Jeep JK (gen 2) and JT/JL.  It's far from dumb.  What do you mean?  The JK had limited adjustability, the JT/JL had lots of options along with the new "off road cruise control" which is pretty amazing.

 

I might have to look into a Gladiator.  My Frontier has a button to turn off T/C.  That's it.  No other adjustments.

As far as "dumb it down", I'm mostly talking about throttle response, ignition timing, and fuel mapping.  With "throttle by wire" they can program a delay vs. the pedal position to improve fuel economy, emissions, and keep you from hurting yourself with all that HP.  This would be fine for economy-mode, but I wish we could program all this stuff out.  Plug-in programmers help, but very little.  The Pedal Commander can make a big difference, but not as good as direct connection to the throttle plate.  My truck has a manual trans, so take-offs are good, but it pulls harder in 2nd than it does in 1st, so I know they are retarding the power somehow.  If I didn't race, probably wouldn't care as much.  Thinking about a custom build for my next truck.  Hope I can afford it.

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16 minutes ago, jon haney said:

My Frontier has a button to turn off T/C. 

 

Wait, plain old TC is not at all what we're talking about.  There are a bunch of specific off-road assistance modes for a variety of situations.  The newer Rubis have three distinct ones I can think of, but there are so many settings it's hard to just limit them to that.  Throttle plate connection?  Jesus, thank the gods we no longer depend on friction and mass and shit to control a vehicle.  In fact some of the off-road modes reduce speed of response, as they should.  Pedal Commander is a ludicrous addition that is mental only and makes everything worse.  For "only" $300.  There are morans putting this on Smart cars too.

 

 

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1 hour ago, SwampNut said:

 

Wait, plain old TC is not at all what we're talking about.  There are a bunch of specific off-road assistance modes for a variety of situations.  The newer Rubis have three distinct ones I can think of, but there are so many settings it's hard to just limit them to that.  Throttle plate connection?  Jesus, thank the gods we no longer depend on friction and mass and shit to control a vehicle.  In fact some of the off-road modes reduce speed of response, as they should.  Pedal Commander is a ludicrous addition that is mental only and makes everything worse.  For "only" $300.  There are morans putting this on Smart cars too.

 

 

LOL.  I know, but I had to list something I could change that was a benefit, and that was the only thing I had.  However, you can have multiple levels of T/C, as in "adjustable".  Most modern sport-bikes, and a few cars, have that ability.

The stuff I'm talking about is not 4WD specific.  BTW, "friction and mass" are easier to repair on the trail than electrical components.

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the electrical "improvements", but I want them adjustable, so I can feel more connected to the vehicle, not isolated from it.

The Pedal Commander works (to varying degrees), but it's no substitute for instant throttle response.  Good news is, it's adjustable.

Imagine if your cursor was .5 seconds behind when you move your mouse.  That is how I describe a modern vehicles throttle response (that doesn't have a sport mode).

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Mouse acceleration and motion are indeed artificially controlled.  Imagine if your cursor moved exactly how you move the mouse.  Unusable.

 

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On 7/24/2022 at 10:54 AM, SwampNut said:

Mouse acceleration and motion are indeed artificially controlled.  Imagine if your cursor moved exactly how you move the mouse.  Unusable.

 

True, but there is no lag in response time on my mouse.

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3 hours ago, jon haney said:

True, but there is no lag in response time on my mouse.

Oh yea?!?  What's it doing 0-60?  I bet mine's quicker!

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I don't understand the love for pedal programers, but I've never driven one before/after.  I installed one on a buddy's truck and he loves it...he also swears it makes more power and MPG despite the manufacturer clearly stating that it doesn't change tuning at all.

 

Some of the tunes for my 7.3 make the pedal too sensitive and a bit jumpy, I hate that.  I've driven a few factory vehicles like that, I don't think I could buy one unless it could be easily fixed.

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There absolutely is lag in mouse response, acceleration curve, etc etc.  Mostly around 8-16ms lag.  Our entire world has lag and your brain re-assembles it.  You can't watch a stage show without a huge amount of audio lag and your brain makes you think it's live.  Throttle too, and that's a very good thing.

 

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20 hours ago, SwampNut said:

There absolutely is lag in mouse response, acceleration curve, etc etc.  Mostly around 8-16ms lag.  Our entire world has lag and your brain re-assembles it.  You can't watch a stage show without a huge amount of audio lag and your brain makes you think it's live.  Throttle too, and that's a very good thing.

 

Pardon my lack of precision.  Allow me to re-state: "No noticeable lag."

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21 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Oh yea?!?  What's it doing 0-60?  I bet mine's quicker!

Oh yea?!?  Bet I personally turn 60 before you.

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16 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

You both are losers if that is the race. :)

Two words:  SENIOR DISCOUNT

lol.

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18 hours ago, jon haney said:

Oh yea?!?  Bet I personally turn 60 before you.

I felt 60+ yesterday so "seat of the pants feel" I've already won this race.

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4 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

I felt 60+ yesterday so "seat of the pants feel" I've already won this race.

If we start talking about seats, you win.  I still have a great ass, according to my wife.

In the knee department, I got something for ya.👴

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