blackhawkxx Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 Fuel, spark and air. Have you confirmed that you have spark at the spark plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 Great point, sometimes we overlook things in thinking there's one obvious problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singram Posted June 15, 2021 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 15 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said: Fuel, spark and air. Have you confirmed that you have spark at the spark plugs? Hmm, honestly that was not even on my radar given that the pump will not prime while in circuit. Lack of spark could prohibit the pump from priming? If thats possible, worth looking into, I suppose. On another note, do you still have your '01 BB? I ask because given the condition of the bike, I'd rather send my ECU to someone willing to hook it up to their bike as opposed to tearing too deep into a showroom condition Bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 1 hour ago, singram said: Hmm, honestly that was not even on my radar given that the pump will not prime while in circuit. Lack of spark could prohibit the pump from priming? If thats possible, worth looking into, I suppose. On another note, do you still have your '01 BB? I ask because given the condition of the bike, I'd rather send my ECU to someone willing to hook it up to their bike as opposed to tearing too deep into a showroom condition Bird. Sorry, you said " I've also attempted to start the bike while "jumping" the pump to an external 12v battery. Although the pump does prime, the engine just cranks away without starting." so I wondered if you had spark. I didn't mean to imply it had a affect on the pump. I have a 97 Bird, not a 01. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peepa Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 2 hours ago, singram said: Hmm, honestly that was not even on my radar given that the pump will not prime while in circuit. Lack of spark could prohibit the pump from priming? If thats possible, worth looking into, I suppose. On another note, do you still have your '01 BB? I ask because given the condition of the bike, I'd rather send my ECU to someone willing to hook it up to their bike as opposed to tearing too deep into a showroom condition Bird. I'm also wondering about the spark. And not so much that it's not firing as much as I'm wondering that nothing is working. What ever controls the fire ie: spark and fuel, is what I am assuming isnt working since you still had no fire even with the pump hard wired. Had there been spark it would have started. Also that being said, I do have a 01 and I'm only about 2.5 hours away. Give or take depending on traffic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singram Posted June 15, 2021 Author Share Posted June 15, 2021 1 hour ago, blackhawkxx said: I didn't mean to imply it had a affect on the pump. Makes sense. I think we're on the same page on that note. For sure not limited to the pump, thats for sure. 45 minutes ago, Peepa said: I'm wondering that nothing is working. Yup, you and me both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 I no longer have the '01 so I can't test your ECU. I doubt it's the ECU since you do get power to the pump connector, but the no-start with a jumper on the pump makes me wonder. Once you've tested for + and - at the connector with a load I think we'll have better information to move forward with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singram Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 Update!! I hit the front ram air vents with some starting fluid and she started up!! Sooo, fuel injectors I'd imagine. But why would the pump not prime while in circuit, but will when jumped? I cant tell if this just got easier or harder😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 It definitely just got better/easiera. Knowing that the ignition system works and that you get power at the pump pretty much eliminates the ECU as being the problem. Pump won't run due to a lack of power/high resistance somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singram Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, superhawk996 said: Pump won't run due to a lack of power/high resistance somewhere Hmm, whats our move from here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, singram said: Hmm, whats our move from here? Voltage test at the pump connector under load as I've described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 I'm guessing that with both meter leads at the pump wires with the pump or other load connected you'll see little voltage. Alternating the leads with one at the connector and the other at the battery you should find which wire is the one with the problem. Once we know if it's the + or - that's weak we can find the culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 If it'll be easier to talk it through gimme a ring. (626)712-9257 Oscar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, singram said: Update!! I hit the front ram air vents with some starting fluid and she started up!! Sooo, fuel injectors I'd imagine. But why would the pump not prime while in circuit, but will when jumped? I cant tell if this just got easier or harder😄 Kiss,keep it simple stupid.😁 I seriously doubt all injectors would go south all of the sudden. Now, based on info provided by you I would jump fuel pump and check fuel pressure. Edited June 16, 2021 by tomek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singram Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 9 hours ago, superhawk996 said: If it'll be easier to talk it through gimme a ring. (626)712-9257 Oscar. Your instructions are pretty clear, let me hold onto your offer and give them a shot after work- thanks! 17 minutes ago, tomek said: Kiss,keep it simple stupid.😁 I seriously doubt all injectors would go south all of the sudden. Now, based on info provided by you I would jump fuel pump and check fuel pressure. Agreed, lets see what I can come up with today. I'll update from there. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) Couple things that were not clear, at least for me When you turn key to on position fuel pump will prime for first 2-3 seconds and then goes off, at least that's how many FI systems operate. So, you should really check voltage with starter engaged. However, you did say it would not start with pump jumped so I don't believe that's the issue. If fuel pressure is ok next line of attack should be cam and crank position sensors. They don't necessarily throw the code (check engine light) even if something is wrong. Edited June 16, 2021 by tomek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 42 minutes ago, singram said: Your instructions are pretty clear, let me hold onto your offer and give them a shot after work- thanks! That was for phone sex, stop resisting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peepa Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 My guess is fuel filter inside the tank is plugged. The pump will still run but that doesn't mean you are getting fuel and since it fired off the spray than you're getting spark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted June 16, 2021 Share Posted June 16, 2021 22 hours ago, singram said: Hey there, Jon. I agree, the ECU is definitely a top contender. Given that I'd imagine a used ECU would be a non-returnable item, I'll give the "free" tests a go first. That Triumph in your sig, Speed Triple? I have a cafe'd out '07. Once the charging/starting issues were sorted, its an amazing bike. Mine is a Street Triple. The Speed was a little heavy for what I was wanting. At 400 lbs. full of gas, the Streety has plenty of power and is a hoot to ride. Even makes a capable tourer for one, with a Corbin seat and a Givi trunk. Old pic. It now has bar-end mirrors, and Ohlins shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singram Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 2 hours ago, jon haney said: Mine is a Street Triple. The Speed was a little heavy for what I was wanting. At 400 lbs. full of gas, the Streety has plenty of power and is a hoot to ride. Even makes a capable tourer for one, with a Corbin seat and a Givi trunk. Old pic. It now has bar-end mirrors, and Ohlins shock. Beautiful example, Jon! Agreed on not needing the extra weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singram Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 16 hours ago, superhawk996 said: Alternating the leads with one at the connector and the other at the battery you should find which wire is the one with the problem. I'm sorry, I thought it was clear the first time I read your suggestion 😀. The first test, I'll be testing voltage at the pump wires with the pump attached and the Start switch i the ON position. Easy enough. The 2nd test, also with the pump attached and the switch ON, I'll first test voltage from the (Green -)to the battery NEG, then from the (Brown+) to the battery POS, is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singram Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 Ok, we're much closer. Here's what I got now- With a meter across the pump connector leads(pump attached)- no voltage at start Testing voltage across connector leads with pump disconnected- 12v for 1 second only, then nothing Testing continuity from pump connector GREEN to frame Ground- Good Very important here - Testing continuity from Brown pump connector to Fuel Cut Off Brown- NOTHING Ran an auxiliary wire from the Pump connector to the Fuel Cut Off Relay in tandem with the Brown wire- Pump primes, motor starts and BlackBird Fires to life!! Sooo, damaged Brown wire? Looking at the wiring diagram, Brown doesnt seem to go anywhere or to anything else. Can I simply snip the Brown off the Relay side and pump side and simply run another wire in parallel and insulated with the main harness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 It sounds like you could safely do what you say, but I'd cut the factory brown wire off at both ends instead of doing tandem. A wire rarely goes bad without damage so if it's pinched/cut somewhere it's safer to have it be dead than have it be energized. Congratulations! I don't recall if you said so, but what did you pay for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I just re-read and you said snip it off, I glossed over that. I took a quick look in my manual and don't see a fuel pump fuse but I think they have one. If there is and it's on the inlet side of the relay then no problem. If the fuse is on the outlet that's probably where the problem is, and your auxiliary wire would be bypassing it. Simple test, if there is a fuse, pull it with your auxiliary wire on and see if the pump stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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