768mph Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 (edited) I recently bought a 2003 Bird, previous owner stored it and too great care of it (stored for a year) 9800 miles, now has 10,3xxx miles. I replaced the fuel pump and filter (pump seized), changed the FPR, tires, Oil change and just recently bled the brakes and the clutch fluid (ATE Super Blue DOT4)Bike had no problems with clutch before change (original fluid I assume) it was dark and cloudy with no loss of fluid. After the process, brakes work great but the clutch bite point is now all the way to you end now. Before it would engage half way through. What I done to remedy this:-Bled the fluid 3 times (pneumatic air pump, gravity and old school pump method) NO AIR in system. -Pulled sprocket cover, cleaned the rod and the debris and build up inside and around the cover/sprockets) -Rod had some black (faint) scoring but true and cleaned up nicely. I can only think maybe the slave cylinder but everything was in working order before the fluid change. How would new fluid cause it to stick where the old fluid was dirty..Thoughts? Edited September 7, 2014 by 768mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Sounds like there's air trapped somewhere, probably the master. Turn the bars and position the bike so that the draw hole in the master is at the highest point so that air can get out of the cylinder, you probably have to turn the bars right and tilt the bike to it's right side, and pump it to allow the air to rise into the reservoir. The handle end of the master needs to be just a little higher while keeping it as close to level front to back as possible. Do this with the cap on to reduce the chance of spillage. If that fails rig a way to back bleed it, drain it down some and pump fluid into the slave bleed nipple up to the res. It's possible that some sludge or debris from the old fluid sitting got moved to a place where it's effecting something, but much less likely than air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
768mph Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 How far out is the clutch push rod (in the reservoir) supposed to engage? Looking at it and hearing the initial click, it clicks on the first 1/3 of the clutch lever's travel. but the clutch doesnt engage until the last 2/3rds-end of the lever's travel. If that makes sense. Shouldnt it engage (initially) as soon or near the release from the grip and the clutch engages halfway through travel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Have you ridden it and then try to bleed it again? If that don't work, I would try what SuperHawk said about back bleeding. A car shop might be able to help with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
768mph Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 Yes, Ive ridden again after bleeding it. Seems better but not to where It was. Ill just bite the bullet and buy a Motive Pump Bleeder. http://www.jegs.com/i/Motive+Products/715/0090/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710740688&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=230006180000848287&cadevice=c&gclid=CIPCj6KB0MACFcZQ7AodUFQAWw Im sure I can use it on my bike and vehicle. Just gives me an excuse to buy a new tool. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I've pushed fluid back up to the cylinder from the bleeder a time or two to get it to work, and sure enough, a bubble came up into the reservoir. But new tools are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I found after I first did the clutch that it felt "soft" compared to before, but there was no loss in performance. Maybe it was the type of fluid previously in the bike (I went full synthetic), or maybe it was how old the prior fluid was that gave that "grab" feel when I engaged the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runninn Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I always change the clutch fluid by pushing it up from the slave cyl. It's messy (use rags), but you get all the air out. Takes all of 30 seconds and works great... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 i always use a large med dropper to suck out the old in the res, then top off with new. hook up clear hose to fitting and place in bottle of fluid.. bleed, refill before empty, bleed, refil.. do it a few times and golden.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 How far out is the clutch push rod (in the reservoir) supposed to engage? Looking at it and hearing the initial click, it clicks on the first 1/3 of the clutch lever's travel. but the clutch doesnt engage until the last 2/3rds-end of the lever's travel. If that makes sense. Shouldnt it engage (initially) as soon or near the release from the grip and the clutch engages halfway through travel? I don't understand the questions or know what's clicking, it shouldn't click. The clutch should be fully engaged a little after the halfway point of releasing the handle and the clutch should be disengaged well before the handle hits the grip, guessing about 3/4 squeezed. This'll vary some depending on your lever adjustment, but simply put, it should be like it was before the bleeding. Did you tilt the master and bleed it? The bike has to be at the proper angle to bleed the slave as well, probably fine on the center stand but tilting it a bit to make sure the bleeder is at the highest point will assure there's no place to trap a bubble. You can buy every brake tool in existence but unless one of them is a gravity inverter you won't get air out of a cylinder that's at a bad angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 768mph, what you're experiencing is normal. Both my Bird's clutches didn't start to grab until the lever was most of the way out. I intentionally let air into the system once to see if it would give me a little more lever travel. It worked, but only for about a day, until the air worked its way back to the reservoir. Best solution I found was to change to a Pazzo lever, which has more adjustment range than stock. Only other thing would be to try a smaller master cylinder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRXX Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 pretty sure i notice a faint click when the lever is operated. probably the switch from starter interlock system to keep it from starting in gear w/o clutch lever pulled in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 pretty sure i notice a faint click when the lever is operated. probably the switch from starter interlock system to keep it from starting in gear w/o clutch lever pulled in. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
768mph Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Fixed the issue Gents. When I bled, the bike was on the center stand and bars full tilt to the right; proper postions per the manual. I was suggested to sit on the bike and tilt the bike as far as I could the the right and pump the clutch handle to see if any bubbles may have stuck near the banjo bolt connection below the reservoir; it worked!A few pumps of the clutch handle and it was back to what it was originally. Thank you all for the help! pretty sure i notice a faint click when the lever is operated. probably the switch from starter interlock system to keep it from starting in gear w/o clutch lever pulled in. Yep, thats the click I was refering to. I took the handle off and lubed/cleaned the bolt connection. And realized it was the interlock system. 768mph, what you're experiencing is normal. Both my Bird's clutches didn't start to grab until the lever was most of the way out. I intentionally let air into the system once to see if it would give me a little more lever travel. It worked, but only for about a day, until the air worked its way back to the reservoir. Best solution I found was to change to a Pazzo lever, which has more adjustment range than stock. Only other thing would be to try a smaller master cylinder. Yes, i will get new levers here soon. Thanks bud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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