My K&N Experience

[Involute]

I bought my 98 last spring. I bought it from the original owner who states he never had it jetted. With that being said it was all stock and still is. I ordered a K&N air filter and put it on as I was hoping for more air intake. My bike ran like shit when I accelerated hard. I am at about 4500 feet above sea level. I took it up in the mountains to about 8000 feet and it of course ran even worse. From about 5000 rpm through 8500 rpm it gasped and lurched like a bitch. I put the stock filter back in and the bike runs like it always has. So I'll back up what Carlos said about the stock filter breathing better. This is the first time I've experienced that happening as I've had great luck with K&N in the past on other bikes. Now I hope that Dennis Kirk won't give me any flack about a refund.

[XX RATED]

Did you spray oil on it before you used it?

They come pre-lubed from the factory - wondering if you just had

too much oil on the filter????

[Hookman49]

My bike came with a K&N when I bought her. How do you clean it? And I take it that there is a special oil I need to get.

Ken

[XX RATED]

I clean mine with either brake cleaner, or gasoline.

I clean from the inside out - then I blow dry with air comp.

K&N sells an oil (which I believe to be machine oil) - but I use it anyway;

I spray a small coating over the filter area - OUTSIDE ONLY!

I wait approx. 5 min. then I blow dry (freom inside out) again; wipe off any excess oil with a rag & install.

Totoal time - approx. 15 min.

[Hookman49]

I clean mine with either brake cleaner, or gasoline.  

Just spray in on? Ok, were do you get the oil from? Right from K&N or some place like Dennis Kirk?

Ken

[Involute]

Did you spray oil on it before you used it?

They come pre-lubed from the factory - wondering if you just had  

too much oil on the filter????

Did not add oil to the factory job. Just installed it.

Hook........ I suggest buying the K&N cleaning kit and spray on oil. The K&N cleaner works awesome.

Dennis Kirk part number:

Filter Care Service Kit #30-1073 $12.99

It 's the spray on oil and the cleaner.

[Hookman49]

Hook........ I suggest buying the K&N cleaning kit and spray on oil. The K&N cleaner works awesome.  

Dennis Kirk part number:  

Filter Care Service Kit #30-1073 $12.99  

Thanks Scot, I am going to get the kit. I need a couple of other items from them anyway.

Ken

[vetteman]

you can get that kit at most local retailers too. pep boys, auto zone, etc. for about the same price. i think my kit was 11.95 at pep boys. and the stuff will last for a long time. i have had mine for about 4 years now and used it on the quad and my old truck a few times each.

and be very careful if your going to dry with compressed air (btw k&n does not recommend that but i know a lot of people who do it). dont use very much air pressure. i usually just shake mine off real good (just like at the urinal) and let it dry overnight.

[Hookman49]

you can get that kit at most local retailers too. pep boys, auto zone, etc

Thank you, I will try there first. Have both here local. Did not think of them.

Ken

[SwampNut]

I clean mine with either brake cleaner, or gasoline.

I clean from the inside out - then I blow dry with air comp.

This may be working for you, but lots of people have fucked up their filters using compressed air to dry them. K&N warns against this.

When I had a K&N I used the K&N spray cleaner and the filter oil. It is important to use FILTER OIL! It is NOT the same as a regular oil; in fact, it's more like a non-drying glue.

[Northman]

My bike ran like shit when I accelerated hard. I am at about 4500 feet above sea level. I took it up in the mountains to about 8000 feet and it of course ran even worse. From about 5000 rpm through 8500 rpm it gasped and lurched like a bitch.

That just proves the K&N was flowing better than stock, if it leaned the bike out.

Adding the filter, and rejetting will definitely gain you some power as you're on the border of excessively lean right now.

I hope XX Rated was joking about the way he treats his filter, or he will probably be going through a lot of them. Buy the kit as it won't dry out the seals, and use the proper oil.

Oh, and I agree with the guys that said "Don't use compressed air!"

[SR71BLACKBIRDXX]

I clean mine with either brake cleaner, or gasoline.

I clean from the inside out - then I blow dry with air comp.

K&N sells an oil (which I believe to be machine oil) - but I use it anyway;

I spray a small coating over the filter area - OUTSIDE ONLY!

I wait approx. 5 min. then I blow dry (freom inside out) again; wipe off any excess oil with a rag & install.

Totoal time - approx. 15 min.

I really hope that your kidding bro...

Compressed air will ruin a K&N in no time, and using fuel to clean them is just about as good for it as tits on a bull.

[blackhawkxx]

Yea, what Northman says. This proves without a doubt that the K&N is flowing more air. If it is lean to start with, the K&N will make it leaner. That is why sometimes the bike will dyno less with a K&N if you don't make the fuel system rich enough.

[Involute]

OK, I am obviously not an expert, but............ At this altitude with stock jetting the bike is not getting enough air. I assume all bikes come with jetting for sea level as that is the point of entry in to this country and the bikes need to meet the emmision requirements at the P.O.E. The bike runs good with the stock filter (no stumble or lurching). I know that jetting it properly for this altitude will help a lot. I put on a K&N and it runs crappy. It runs even worse at more altitude. More altitude = less air. If I was getting more air I should not have this problem. More air up here means a better air/fuel mixture with stock jetting. I have bought a few brand new bikes and taken them home bone stock. I put on a K&N a few weeks later and I notice that the bike is breathing better (pulling harder and reving more freely). This applies to the brand new KLR650 I bought as well as a brand new Concours. I have never had a bike in Utah that a K&N filter meant too much air nor has installing one with stock jetting ever meant I needed to re-jet in order to get more fuel.

Now it is time for all of you to shoot holes in my rationale. If I am wrong please prove it and I will humbly put my tail between my legs and tell you that you're pretty and I'm ugly, you're smart and I'm stupid. :wink: And do it quick before I send the filter back!

[Northman]

Has the original owner ever had the carbs apart?

It may be possible that the dealer did the jet work before initial delivery, if it was sold nearby (high altitude).

The other thing to consider is:

Carbs work on vacuum, and airflow. Carbs need atmospheric pressure to draw fuel, and will run pretty consistently at a given ratio, even in high altitude situations. The engine supplies the vacuum, but the atmosphere pushes the fuel.

For a given vacuum, a carb would draw more fuel at sea level, than at altitude due to the difference in pressure on the fuel supply.

While you're right that it wouldn't make sense to run leaner at higher altitudes, it would make sense that the lean-ness was more prominent at the higher altitudes due to the extra power the bike needs to operate at those heights.

[Involute]

Has the original owner ever had the carbs apart?

It may be possible that the dealer did the jet work before initial delivery, if it was sold nearby (high altitude).

Anything is possible but the guy told me the bike was never re-jetted.

[pdxxx]

Involute is right. If it runs worse at higher altitude, then the filter is MORE restrictive than stock. Fuel mix is too rich at sea level, and becomes richer as altitude increases and oxygen input decreases.

If it ran better as altitude increased, then the problem would have been that the fuel mix was too lean - that the jets weren't allowing enough fuel in to bring the mix to the proper ratio.

Right?

So as many have said, the fix is to increase the air flow by cleaning the filter. Sounds clogged with dust and/or excessive oil.

[AlphaBird]

Involute is right.  If it runs worse at higher altitude, then the filter is MORE restrictive than stock.  Fuel mix is too rich at sea level, and becomes richer as altitude increases and oxygen input decreases.

If it ran better as altitude increased, then the problem would have been that the fuel mix was too lean - that the jets weren't allowing enough fuel in to bring the mix to the proper ratio.

Right?  

So as many have said, the fix is to increase the air flow by cleaning the filter.  Sounds clogged with dust and/or excessive oil.

Yep---More alt--less air--too rich-makes sense to me

[SwampNut]

Or drop in a stock filter and forget about it...

[Involute]

Thanks for the affirmation guys.

[jimyz250]

when I had my exhaust and jetting done I asked to put a k&n in at the same time and the owner of Lees cycles in san diego told me that the K&N's do NOT flow as good as a stock honda filter and showed me dyno graphs taken on his dyno showing me. it wasnt a major diff but it was there, he saved me 60 bucks in the past K&N's have always worked better than stock, but honda came up with a good stocker. keep it I wish all the others would too so I could stop buying K&N's for my car, and truck , and girls car and her truck......

[Hookman49]

you can get that kit at most local retailers too. pep boys, auto zone, etc. for about the same price. i think my kit was 11.95 at pep boys. and the stuff will last for a long time.

Thanks Vetteman. Picked mine kit up yesterday at Advance Auto Parts. $9.95 plus tax.

Ken