severdog Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 I'm trying to come up to speed on this topic and could use some advice. Given: the stock suspension on the XX pretty much sucks, and is causing my "hobby-horse" ride. So The Solution Is: replace the rear shock, and have new Racetech mods fitted up front. So my Questions are: 1) Which should I do first? Rear shock or Front Fork upgrade? 2) Rear shock looks to be ~$800 for an Ohlins. Rear shock using the "Carlos CBR900" method would probably be about $250 when all is said and done. Would a reworked/resprung 900 shock offer the same "ride" as the Ohlins? Thanks fo' yo' hep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBird Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 So my Questions are:1) Which should I do first? Rear shock or Front Fork upgrade? 2) Rear shock looks to be ~$800 for an Ohlins. Rear shock using the "Carlos CBR900" method would probably be about $250 when all is said and done. Would a reworked/resprung 900 shock offer the same "ride" as the Ohlins? Thanks fo' yo' hep. 1) Front forks---You might want to consider having Dan Kyle do them ---$430/complete in a week-- for revalving, respringing, polishing---dont know if SDMarc has gotten his back yet---but myself/WarChild are estatic with Dan's Work 2) There is NO comparison between an RR shock and an Ohlin/Penske The OHlins will waaay outperform the RR shock, is rebuidable so it will last forever---to compare--the Ohlins transformed my 929 and the XX 3) Dont know if you have shimmed the rear 6mm or not--but this was the single best mod that I have done to the XX (cost=$0.25)---BUT it makes the shortcomings of the forks more noticable as there is more weight on them God Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severdog Posted July 30, 2003 Author Share Posted July 30, 2003 Alpha- Thanks for the advice. Please keep in mind that my riding style is WAY tame compared to yours, and will likely remain so after all of the carnage that I've read about this week. I have not done the shim mod. I find the XX to be much easier handling than any of the previous touring pigs that I've ridden. If you could only do the front...or the rear....suspension upgrade, which would you do? Or is this an "all or nothing" upgrade? thanks..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 I changed my rear to Ohlins, and upfront Ohlins springs&fork oil. BIG difference from stock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchild Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 This is a tougher call then it might appear on the surface, because your rear shock (obviously) plays a pretty critical role in the suspension game. Your four-year-old shock, at 16,000 miles, is prolly close to becoming a candidate for replacement, but my guess is it's not quite yet ready to give up the ghost. Particularly if most of those 16K miles were solo running. Do the forks. Go with Dan Kyle and start living the Good Life. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 While the shock sucks, I would strongly vote for the fork work over anything else. It makes such a HUGE difference, no matter your riding style. That "hobby horse" feeling is coming from the forks. Twice now I've seen it clearly illustrated by riding with another XX on the highway--mine is just steady and flat while the stocker is bouncing around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Marc Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 dont know if SDMarc has gotten his back yet NO, I have not gotten them back yet. I sent them out 7/14 Dan had them 7/16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchild Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 NO, I have not gotten them back yet. I sent them out 7/14 Dan had them 7/16. ACK!! As you undoubtedly know now, this really needs to be a winter activity..... I couldn't LIVE with no XX during heavy riding season!! Plus Dan is up to his eyeballs in work himself during the height of racing season.... Hope you get them back soon, 'bro, it's going to make a world of difference in the ride.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Marc Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 ACK!! As you undoubtedly know now, this really needs to be a winter activity..... I couldn't LIVE with no XX during heavy riding season!! I am lucky enough to live in San Diego where every season is riding season and I do realize this is Dan's busy season but, I am getting antsy (not ANSII) as I would like to be able to hook up with the S.D. ride this weekend. Time is running thin for me at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyv65 Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 OK, here's the deal: 1) Install the correct fork springs for your weight. Race Tech springs will run you about $100 and take 25 minutes to replace, and all by themselves they are a remarkable improvement. 2) Shim the rear shock 6 mm. This will take an honest hour (maybe more), but it's cheap and it makes a HUGE difference in how quickly the bike turns. 3) Rear shock change. Cheapest is Carlos' 900RR mod version, then the Traxxion Dynamics Penske Sport version, Fox twin clicker, right up to Ohlins. Do you race your 'Bird? No? Go the Carlos route, or Traxxion Dynamics. 4) RaceTech revalving. Rebuildable compression and rebound valve kits fron RT will run you about $290, and you can do the forks yourself in about 5 hours; and you can change them yourself if you lose weight or something :beer: . In all honesty, you'll be so stunned at the difference in the handling after the fork spring/shim work that you'll probably wait 'till winter to do the rear shock and valving-besides, at 16,000 miles that rear shock is "not completey dead, just mostly dead" (shades of Miracle Max, eh?). And at this point, the bike once again better than most of us ride, anyway. Bryan...the shim means grounding pegs is more impressive... :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDAZ XX Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 I would agree with you guys. Dans forks are the way to go, spend a little extra and have a professional do it right. Hes done both RC's and its a day and night difference in handling and ride. I have the racetech in my XX and in no way does it compare to the work DK does. Penske or Ohlins on back as well. I run a penske on the XX and an Ohlin on the RC. Both are head and tail above anything else. My.02 :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerardoXX Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 I would agree with you guys.I have the racetech in my XX and in no way does it compare to the work DK does. BDAZ XX, What does DK uses to revalve the front end, I have RaceTech and can't compare with anything else. It is better than the original, but I beleive it could be better :?: . Does he uses other brand of components to do the job, or he's just more accurate in doing it. For the rear end, I did install Ohlins and I can't be happier with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Who did your RT install? It's just been discovered that RT's instructions for the rebound kit aren't quite accurate. They're revising them for the XX based upon my shop's tuning efforts on my bike. It took a few tries, but now the forks are really excellent. Overall though, I have to say RT's support is just utter fucking crap. They are just no help when you call them. The instructions are generic across too many bikes. We get the same instructions as other Hondas that weigh 100 pounds less, so the damping is all wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerardoXX Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 I did it my self, using the instruction and a video tape included. For example they give you the number of shims to combine for the rebound, but they don't mention anything about the compression damping. So the compression's shims are stock, other than the 1 mm hole that you have to drill in the compression ports. So I really don't know if I did something wrong. Any way as I mention before, with the mods is better than stock, so it worth the investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimyz250 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 gerarado.. its my understanding that you have to buy two kits for each fork, a compression, AND a rebound, whci would prolly be the reason you didnt have any compression shims in the kit., but I could be wrong, I know ehn you buy them for the dirtbikes its all inclusive, but form reading here on the board , you need two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRB NW WA State Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Early this year, the give-me-all-you've-got-Scotty Race Tech front job cost me about $600, including 1.05 Kg/mm springs. My rider weight's 230lbs. I also have 17 lbs of Corbin bags on the rear, complicating the situation for both front and rear suspension. YMMV. Afterwards, at low speed it falls in a bit. They are not harsh, but want to be thrashed. Elevate the pace to "sport mode" above roughly 50 mph on moderate twisties, everything gels like magic. I'm astounded how well in general the Bird now works at moderate and (especially) warp speed twisties. I'm guessing fork work on this bike is a tradeoff: since they're not easy to adjust, pick your favorite pastime, have them setup, and live with it. They sure ain't the inverted Showas on my Mille or Kayabas on my '03 ZX-6R. I did front and rear simultaneously, at about 30K miles, seeing no point in a correctly-tuned front and bogus rear, or vice-versa. The shock debate never ends here, so I'll merely state what I did and why. Traxxion Dynamics did a fine job on my Mille two-way Penske shock in late 2002. They also offer the “Sport Shock,” an 8900-series without compression adjustment, at a competitive price. After carefully weighing debate on this forum, I went with the Sport Shock. I have little intention of adjusting Blackbird rear suspension beyond static sag and rebound. Again, I also obtained a heavier spring for my bulk which alone solved 90% of the problems. That’s great for me, but others on this list prefer additional adjustability. In retrospect, another option was giving both front and rear to Traxxion Dynamics. If I understand correctly, they have their own mojo for Blackbird forks. So far they’ve treated me very well. I’ll continue to use them in the future. Shipping forks was no great shakes: I used a commercial post office place, packed them carefully in a long box with lots of popcorn, insured up the yin-yang, and escaped for thirty bucks each way to and from Seattle. Rebuilding a CBR900RR shock is another option. Guys do it and manage to keep costs low, too. I think it’s a great idea. I was too lazy and also know I'll need Traxxion to one day rejuvenate my Penske rear shock. Better they work on a "known" product, in my mind. KyleUSA has three-way adjustable Ohlins for Kawasaki ZX-6Rs at an excellent price. If they’re available for Blackbirds, so much the better. As an aside, I’m very glad DK found an interest in 2003 ZX-6Rs, too, though that’s yet another way to spend all my money. Properly-setup suspension revitalized my ’99 Bird. Front and rear were totally sacked at about 25K miles. To be fair, I should have at least changed fork oil once in awhile but blew it off due to laziness. We’ll see how it goes when I cross 60K miles in a couple years. Penske aren’t difficult to rejuvenate. I do not know how the RaceTech forks will hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBird Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Early this year, the give-me-all-you've-got-Scotty Race Tech front job cost me about $600, including 1.05 Kg/mm springs. My rider weight's 230lbs. KyleUSA has three-way adjustable Ohlins for Kawasaki ZX-6Rs at an excellent price. If they’re available for Blackbirds, so much the better. As an aside, I’m very glad DK found an interest in 2003 ZX-6Rs, too, though that’s yet another way to spend all my money. $430 to have Dan do my XX forks incl Ohlins 1.05 springs Dan is sponsoring some Canadian dude on the Kawi 600R---so he is taking a keen interest--in dialing in this bike--he has also done a friends 600R---Scott Winders(BDAZZ probably knows him)--Scott runs 1:57s at T-Hill with that set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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