JohnA

Interesting thread, I've been following it silently almost since it began. I sincerely hope it won't end up in the long pile of 'woulda, coulda, shoulda' Let's see...

Thanks to BigJeff and MileHi for sharing their maps :icon_clap: After comparing them with each other and my previous 'composite' map they do appear to be of higher quality than the questionable maps posted by Dynojet. At least they move in the similar directions, one being slightly richer than the other one. I'll try them both and see which one works best (although I suspect that the 'seat of pants' dyno will not be able to tell the difference between them) Thanks again guys, I'm off to upload them now

I suspect that you risk expensive damage with this method. It used to be safe in carb times, before electronic ignitions and the like.

But the PAIR valves don't work all the time, do they? They might well be operational only on over-run and idle/low load, in which case they wouldn't affect the range we're interested here. I'm not 100% sure on this, just going by my experience with other emissions systems like EGR etc. My suggestion.... run the Zero map... and add fuel only in the 5000 and 5500 ranges... and in the 60 - 80 and 100% columns, with a 1-2-3 recpectively. Yeah, that's where the volumentric efficiency would be a bit higher, isn't it? Because other than that one area..... the Honda ECU does a fantastic job of Correcting itself for the minor mods you have made. I'm not sure how the Honda ECU can 'correct' itself for this. It has no feedback from closed-loop operation so it has to operate on fixed maps and apply the odd offsets from the knock-sensor activity. Other ECUs I know try to stay closed-loop as long as they can and they continously adjust the maps. Under certain conditions they even shift to different open-loop maps if they feel that the operating parameters have changed dramatically. But the Honda ECU has no such feedback (99 model)

It could well be an issue with the PCII/ECU loom plugs. You are introducing two extra sets of connectors, that is bound to increase the probabilities of a failure. It's a good idea to take them off, spray all (male and female) with a good contact cleaner, dry them well and refit tightly. Every little helps.

Obviously I'd too be interested in any member's map (for a 99-2000 bird) that is known to work fine, so I can compare it to what I've got. I have no confidence on the maps posted by Dynojet

I fitted a pair of cans yesterday, legal (with an easily detatchable gizmo) but straight-through design nevertheless. And since I already have a PCII, I naturally decided to use an amended map. There are two on the PC site for the UK bird with 'race' cans, so I thought that I could use a composite of those two mixed up with the 'stock' map (since mine are not 100% ear-shattering antisocial) Easy eh? Eeeerrmmmm... Nope. :icon_wall: Upon close inspection, the online maps are all over the place. Even compared to the 'full race' ones they are incosistent and random. WTF? I would expect them to be broadly similar, correlating quite a bit. OK one might have '10' where the other one has '12' (and the stock map has '3') but roughly moving in the same direction. No chance --- there are even cases where they go the OPPOSITE way (one is adding fuel and the other one taking off fuel, for the same load/rev combo) :icon_duh: Then I have another worry: did these people block the PAIR valves when doing the mapping, or were they fooled by the deceptively lean indications on the wideband? Finally I tried to make some sense out of the 'full race exhaust' maps, but it didn't help much. They are for 4-1 exhausts that sacrifice midrange for top end. At least those are broadly consistent with each other. I did create a 'best guess' map and I'm running it now, but do I trust it? :icon_think:

Busy this weekend, took off the tail to do the 99loom fix. Unveiled the connector, was a bastid to come off. Anyway, there was corrosion but not excessive. So I decided to play it cool, clean&rub everything, dry with compressed air and repackage in a plastic bag and lots of insulation tape. It is now cable-tied to the frame, like the picture on the 'guide' here. We'll see how it holds, if the ECU light comes up again I'll solder the lot. Seeing as the rectifier is not too far away, I was thinking if these two failures. are related

I'm doing this fix this weekend. FI light has come up a couple of times for no apparent reason (99 model) Most probably I'll hardwire the bastid.

Maybe juuuuuust a tiny bit nice to meet you

looks like we touched a nerve there, eh? Anyway, I had the bike on mothballs for 3 years, hence the absence. Happy now? Relax, you'll live longer...

excellent idea. Dump the large airbox with ramair feed and swap for preheated air through pods. Heat is good :icon_wall:

It does actually have a drain plug and I do change it regularly (supra mkiv)

yeah, but if you remember this reccomendation was changed when the triplanes were all the rage. Ah, those were the dayz... Anyway, the acid neutralisers, detergents, VI improvers etc don't live for ever --- they are used up or expire! Honda (or any manufacturer) would not sell as many bikes (or cars) if they reccomended 3K mile oil change periods and competitors 8K periods, would they?. People nowadays are into 'maintenance-free' purchases.

I don't let it go beyond 3K miles. Never have, never will. I wonder if people changing oil often have experienced the CCT 'issue'

Looks like you have air in the system. Bleed the rears and it should be fine. Follow the instructions for bleeding the linked brakes, funnily enough you start with the middle nipples of the front calipers.

Thanks Redbird I'll look for it in the manual, since my model might have it. I thought it was a California-sort-of-hug-a-tree thing.

There you go I haven't looked at the Honda sensor from upclose, but normally they *are* generic. I occasionaly buy SAE papers if I find them interesting. For more advanced engineering discussions, you may like this forum: http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=71

Excuse my ignorance, but what is this PAIR system? do 99Birds have it? The pipe should make a difference in fuelling, because it would alter the volumetric efficiency, especially at higher revs. I doubt that the K&N would make any difference whatsoever, my bet is that it flows the same as a stock paper filter. I had 'race' cans on mine for a short while and it didn't run smoothly at all. Got rid of them because the noise drove me mad (I live in a quiet area too, and starting the bike at 06:00 would be antisocial) I've got the PCII lying around, from someone else's abandoned 'project'. I wonder if the 'stock' maps from the net are actually worth anything. I'm not a big fan of one-size-fits-all solutions, but neither do I want to re-invent the wheel for no good reason.

Thanks Unfortunately I haven't got enough time to spend on it, so it is kinda stale at the moment. You have to understand that the sensor doesn't pick up 'knock', despite the name. It's just a microphone, picking up noise, vibration etc. It is the filtering software that decides if that shape of noise at those revs and such load can be regarded as possible knock. Every block is different, the resonance frequencies are different, and the ECU filtering code reflects that. It's not an exact science either. Sometimes interference or dodgy connections lead the ECU into thinking that it should go into 'safe' mode. Nothing to do with the sensor itself. I'd use some race fuel (50/50 is more than enough) and see if the problems persist. If they do, then you know that there is not really knock, just an electrical fault (you never know, maybe you really do have knock!)

This is my list of actions, moving down if the problem persists: 1. untighten and retighten the sensor to the correct torque (it does affect the output) 2. try adding a washer to decouple the sensor a bit 3. change sensor for a new one 4. Carefully inspect the wiring until the ECU 5. Ultrasonically clean injectors 6. fill tank with race fuel --- if it still persists, then swap ECU for a know good one

No it won't --- how would it know without the ECU having any feedback on AFR? It's a 99 bike, it does NOT have an oxygen sensor from the factory (and even if it did, it would have been narrowband, practically useless for tuning) The wideband would be for my information only, so I know what sort of AFRs I'm getting under what conditions and adjust the PCII accordingly. It would take a bit longer than a few sessions on the RR, but would be more accurate (real-world loading, with realistic airflow through the rads and ramair)

When you filter through traffic, wait at the lights etc it is low load/low rev operation. You spend a lot more time in these conditions than you think --- just datalog and you'd be surprised at how little time you spend at full throttle.

>>>1. Standard sensor isn't either wideband or fast reacting. So what? to run closed loop it doesn't have to be. Works fine with cars, doesn't it? It's only for low revs and low load anyway, then it goes open-loop. Is the Blackbird closed-loop operation substandard then? My 99 cans are black at the back, I bet if it had an oxy sensor they wouldn't be as bad, it would be running AFRs around 14.7 while idling.

Thanks John. Why do people disconnect the oxygen sensor? Doesn't closed-loop result in clean and efficient operation? I wish mine could run closed-loop at low revs/load