Electricians are assholes

[SwampNut]

When the fuck did it become OK to run travelers that are white?  Not red/yellow??  I metered it 57 times and re-read the documentation as many times to be sure.  And it still creeps me out to land a white on a red and black.  WTF?

 

Also the new switches have the funky lever locks.  No screws and no push-in with a self lock.  Ok, sounds good, but...why is the hot now labeled "COMMON?"  Da fuck?  What did I miss?

 

[SwampNut]

You open a box and you have black...white...red...cool...another WHITE WHAT?  

[xrated]

On 1/26/2025 at 9:09 PM, SwampNut said:

When the fuck did it become OK to run travelers that are white?  Not red/yellow??  I metered it 57 times and re-read the documentation as many times to be sure.  And it still creeps me out to land a white on a red and black.  WTF?

 

Also the new switches have the funky lever locks.  No screws and no push-in with a self lock.  Ok, sounds good, but...why is the hot now labeled "COMMON?"  Da fuck?  What did I miss?

 

Here is a page that may explain it a bit for you.  And something to keep in mind, on the three way switch itself, the terminal that is marked as "common", refers to that TERMINAL.....as opposed to the other two terminals (not counting the ground) which are the switched legs for the travellers.

 

https://www.electrical101.com/3way-switch-wiring-using-nm-cable.html

 

And as you can see in the picture to the right of that page, if the incoming line comes into where the actual fixture is located (as opposed to a switchbox), then the white wire can be used as the hot wire feeding the downstream switches...BUT....it is supposed to be marked clearly with BLACK TAPE and that should be at both ends of that cable run. 

Edited January 28 by xrated

[SwampNut]

Yeah, I've seen taped wires a lot.  My house...not done.  It was a rush job in the idiotic boom of 2005.

 

[xrated]

3 hours ago, SwampNut said:

Yeah, I've seen taped wires a lot.  My house...not done.  It was a rush job in the idiotic boom of 2005.

 

In the industrial and commercial electrical industry, phase marking tape is used a LOT.  An example is point A to point B via a run of conduit for a 3 phase device.  So you pull in three Black conductors in the conduit but you mark them with phasing tape before pulling them in the pipe.  Leave one of them black, then mark the other two, one with yellow, one with brown.  If the run is long enough, many times we would set up three spools of Black wire and phase mark them.  On shorter runs, where you can cut off the amount you need from one spool, you just cut three runs and mark them after each one is cut...then pull them in.

 

And I agree, somebody skipped an important step when they were doing yours and left the tape marking off.

[SwampNut]

Oh yeah, I work with 208v shit in datacenters/server rooms and it's all taped to hell.  My home shop subpanel is well taped because shit, I got a LOT of free #4 wire and was not about to buy the right color.  You know the price.

 

[SwampNut]

Um, WTF spec is this?

 

 

[xrated]

1 hour ago, SwampNut said:

Um, WTF spec is this?

 

 

Beats the shit outta me....never seen that before.

[CALCXX]

The white wire used as a switch leg can become a problem in a J-box with other neutral wires connected by wire nut.

You are suppose to "tag" both ends of the switch leg with black tape. The lazy electricians don't always mark the switch end.

Generally, there is no neutral in the switch box.

 

What bothers me is those low voltage types using the green wire for whatever the fuk they feel like.

And they splice shit with differant colors along the way. Automotive even hides the splices. Socksuckers.

 

"Green is Ground the World round." 

 

Edited Monday at 06:06 PM by CALCXX

[CALCXX]

On 1/28/2025 at 4:53 PM, xrated said:

Beats the shit outta me....never seen that before.

Me either? wtf? Sounds like an automotive thing to me😆

Edited Monday at 06:18 PM by CALCXX

[SwampNut]

My last three houses have had neutrals in the switch boxes.  Before that, I have no idea.  I noticed because they are necessary for most smart switches, which I only started using in the 90s.  For the three ways there's a neutral at the main, and none at the remote if the remote is single-gang.

 

Yesterday I was the asshole electrician, I ran a black/red with plain ground in the yard.  Because again, free direct-burial 12# wire is nothing to throw out.

 

Am I imagining things?  Didn't switches and outlets used to have a black screw and a silver one?  Now they are all silver and gold, with the latter being the hot/black.  I have only recently depleted my hoard of old electrical parts and had to buy new.

 

[xrated]

1 hour ago, SwampNut said:

My last three houses have had neutrals in the switch boxes.  Before that, I have no idea.  I noticed because they are necessary for most smart switches, which I only started using in the 90s.  For the three ways there's a neutral at the main, and none at the remote if the remote is single-gang.

 

Yesterday I was the asshole electrician, I ran a black/red with plain ground in the yard.  Because again, free direct-burial 12# wire is nothing to throw out.

 

Am I imagining things?  Didn't switches and outlets used to have a black screw and a silver one?  Now they are all silver and gold, with the latter being the hot/black.  I have only recently depleted my hoard of old electrical parts and had to buy new.

 

I honestly don't remember them having a Black and silver.  As far as I know they've been the silver and gold screws for a long time.  That doesn't mean that they never were, but I sure as hell don't remember them like that??????

 

And yes, neutrals in switch boxes are becoming or maybe ARE the norm now, and it's for the reason that you mentioned....smart switches need them.

Edited Monday at 09:03 PM by xrated

[SwampNut]

Oooooohhhh.....all the smart switches and outlets have black screws.  Probably why I was thinking that.  Until recently I would only remove regular ones, not add them.  Just recently I got a bunch of smart bulbs and now the dumb switches and outlets need to go back.

 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, xrated said:

smart switches need them.

 

And now, many of them are going neutral-free.

 

[superhawk996]

On 1/28/2025 at 10:28 AM, SwampNut said:

Yeah, I've seen taped wires a lot.  My house...not done.  It was a rush job in the idiotic boom of 2005.

 

Probably not as bad as later builds in AZ.  They're still allergic to using enough stucco to cover the chicken wire and they seem to have doubled down with other fuck ups.  Greedy builders are kept in check by incompetent inspectors, and possibly bribed inspectors.

 

A friend of a friend was a building inspector here and moved to Phoenix.  He said that the amount of incompetence he's having to work with is unimaginable.  The head guy there knows less than a first day guy here.

 

There's a home inspector there that does YT videos, Cy Porter.  He is very thorough.  He's been sued (unsuccessfully), harassed, and threatened by builders, he still calls them out in his videos.  He doesn't call them out by name, but their sign somehow always happens to find its way into the shot as he's walking past it.

[SwampNut]

It will get much better once we deport all the Mexicans and white people do this work.

 

[superhawk996]

Absolutely.  The white construction workers are more likely to use meth so they'll be able to work faster and get everything properly done in the allotted time.

[SwampNut]

No siesta.

[Zero Knievel]

On 2/3/2025 at 2:05 PM, SwampNut said:

Am I imagining things?  Didn't switches and outlets used to have a black screw and a silver one?  Now they are all silver and gold, with the latter being the hot/black.  I have only recently depleted my hoard of old electrical parts and had to buy new.

It’s a recent thing to prevent poor wiring.  Every switch or outlet I’ve bought of late has different colors for hot, neutral and ground.  The instructions tell you which one is which.

 

Smart move.  Easier than using a marking on the back you can barely read to tell you which terminal is which.

[SwampNut]

6 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:

It’s a recent thing to prevent poor wiring.  Every switch or outlet I’ve bought of late has different colors for hot, neutral and ground.  The instructions tell you which one is which.

 

Smart move.  Easier than using a marking on the back you can barely read to tell you which terminal is which.

 

You didn't understand what I wrote.  Colored terminals have been a thing all my life.  Its WHICH color.

 

[Zero Knievel]

26 minutes ago, SwampNut said:

You didn't understand what I wrote.  Colored terminals have been a thing all my life.  Its WHICH color.

 

Yeah, but so long as the instructions let you know....

[SwampNut]

Light switches and outlets come with instructions?

 

Colors aren't needed.  Everyone knows the little one is hot, the round one is ground.  It was merely a question of amusement.  Irrelevant since it's obvious anyway.