Replacement springs or helper springs?

[XXitanium]

Cider House Rules.

 

[superhawk996]

So Mike; did the new springs cure the sag?

[Zero Knievel]

I’ll know in a couple of weeks.  Have yet to have them installed.

[blackhawkxx]

4 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:

Have yet to have them installed.

Why aren't you doing it?

[Zero Knievel]

2 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

Why aren't you doing it?

Don’t have the right tools.  Assholes at Mazda/Ford used an assortment of SAE and metric sizes.  I got the u-bolts on the left side undone…which I thought would be the worst.  However, the mount bolts on the ends use a 13/16 nut.  I don’t have that in a closed end wrench, and after trying as much as I dared with an open end wrench, I decided it was smarter to pay my mechanic than to risk rounding off nuts with inadequate tools.  I even had mom pick up a 90 degree impact wrench from HF in town, but it was too large to access the problem nuts.

 

Yeah, I could look and buy a single 13/16 closed end wrench, but that’s a trip to/from town and if I need yet another tool…another trip…plus the risk of it fucking up anyhow.  Sometimes, paying a mechanic is better than dealing with it yourself.  I kid you not, I bought impact drive sockets after breaking a regular socket working on mom’s car with the impact gun.  Every fucking place I could use an impact gun either is inaccessible (can’t get the tool in there) or had bolts so long the socket can’t sit on the nut…even with deep sockets.

[blackhawkxx]

4 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:

Don’t have the right tools.  Assholes at Mazda/Ford used an assortment of SAE and metric sizes.  I got the u-bolts on the left side undone…which I thought would be the worst.  However, the mount bolts on the ends use a 13/16 nut.  I don’t have that in a closed end wrench, and after trying as much as I dared with an open end wrench, I decided it was smarter to pay my mechanic than to risk rounding off nuts with inadequate tools.  I even had mom pick up a 90 degree impact wrench from HF in town, but it was too large to access the problem nuts.

 

Yeah, I could look and buy a single 13/16 closed end wrench, but that’s a trip to/from town and if I need yet another tool…another trip…plus the risk of it fucking up anyhow.  Sometimes, paying a mechanic is better than dealing with it yourself.  I kid you not, I bought impact drive sockets after breaking a regular socket working on mom’s car with the impact gun.  Every fucking place I could use an impact gun either is inaccessible (can’t get the tool in there) or had bolts so long the socket can’t sit on the nut…even with deep sockets.

I guess you are right but then we don't get to live it through you.  😃

[superhawk996]

4 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:

Assholes at Mazda/Ford used an assortment of SAE and metric sizes.

Welcome to every American car/truck from the 80's and 90's, and even some into the 00's.  BTW, 13/16 is usually interchangeable with 21mm.

[Zero Knievel]

9 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Welcome to every American car/truck from the 80's and 90's, and even some into the 00's.  BTW, 13/16 is usually interchangeable with 21mm.

 

Perhaps, but most all metric sets stop at 19mm.

 

Thankfully the U-bots are reusable.  Mazda did this thing where they're flattened around the axle and slightly flanged at the ends.  When I measured (best I could) for the order, it looked like I had 3" u-bolts, but that's too big.  I have to reuse the originals because that's what fits.

[superhawk996]

Reusing u-bolts is like choosing a motor oil, there's 1000 opinions.  Cut vs. rolled threads is supposedly a factor, as well as how much they're torqued and what material they're made of.  If the threads show no deformation at all past where the nut was, they should be fine.  If they've deformed, and it doesn't have to be super obvious, they're weaker and they might show a 'fake' torque reading as they're tightened.  They're the only thing keeping the axle on the truck, no biggie.  I can't imagine that getting stock replacements is difficult, whether OEM or aftermarket.  And ask the shop doing the work, some will refuse to reuse.  I have reused them many times without an issue, but I shy away from giving it an automatic blessing.

 

I ran into several "one time use" bolts on my Porsche when I was reassembling it, and they're much more expensive than hardware store bolts.  I was leaning toward calling bullshit 'till I measured them and found that they had indeed stretched.  But Porsche does a lot of things that other manufacturers don't, like not stepping up to a larger bolt when a smaller one can do the job as long as everything's perfect.  People doing stuff wrong is probably what lead them to stop using aluminum lug nuts and ball joints.

[XXitanium]

Lotus was like that, engineered to minimums for weight reduction.

[blackhawkxx]

6 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

 I have reused them many times without an issue, but I shy away from giving it an automatic blessing.

I have never bought new and haven't lost my rear yet?  😃

 

6 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

I ran into several "one time use" bolts on my Porsche when I was reassembling it, and they're much more expensive than hardware store bolts.

Torque to yield bolts?  I normally replace the important ones like head bolts but some others, not.   Like you said, opinions.

[superhawk996]

8 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

Torque to yield bolts?

Some because they're torque to yield and some because they come with a special sealant on them.  I reused some that had the sealant, I just put a dab of Right Stuff on them.

[Zero Knievel]

Truck is done.  $434.99 to install the springs.  Took the guy 5 hours at $85/hour.  Quite reasonable.  I'll get a better look at how much OEM parts he had to change out, but I saw he did the rear hanger on the driver's side, and there is NO WAY I could have gotten tools in place to loosen the nuts mounting them to the frame.  Commented that it was a bitch of a job, which I believe with over 200K and 25 years.

[blackhawkxx]

1 hour ago, Zero Knievel said:

Truck is done.  $434.99 to install the springs.  Took the guy 5 hours at $85/hour.  Quite reasonable.  I'll get a better look at how much OEM parts he had to change out, but I saw he did the rear hanger on the driver's side, and there is NO WAY I could have gotten tools in place to loosen the nuts mounting them to the frame.  Commented that it was a bitch of a job, which I believe with over 200K and 25 years.

When you can't loosen them, you cut them (in general).  On mine, they were riveted to the frame so the heads had to be cut off and then driven out.   I replaced both sides on my Ranger, have done far worse jobs.   Saying that, I'm sure you made the right decision to have it done. 

[Zero Knievel]

Well…what a difference.  Before, the truck rolled noticeably in every turn.  Now, hardly any roll at all.  Definitely needed to be done.  It will be interesting how much the bed does or doesn’t sag when I pick up a year’s supply of salt for the water softener.  Only the springs were replaced, so on Monday I can see about returning the unused parts.

 

 

 

 

[superhawk996]

Guessing it was under 2 hours working on it, lunch, then 3 hours of calling his friends to place bets on whether the customer would buy the 5 hour story.

[XXitanium]

Is the Carolina squad outlawed in Tennessee yet?

[Zero Knievel]

18 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Guessing it was under 2 hours working on it, lunch, then 3 hours of calling his friends to place bets on whether the customer would buy the 5 hour story.

Well, if one has proof that’s what happened….

 

Have to put the vehicle on a lift.  Properly support the rear axle.  Then start working on 20+ year old bolts in confined spaces.  I’d easily have needed the whole day IF I managed to get it done on my own.

[superhawk996]

4 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:

Have to put the vehicle on a lift.

Yea, I was thinking about it from my angle of having to do it on the ground and without the conveniences of being in a shop, one hour is a more reasonable guess than two.  If hardware had to be cut/broken off that would add time.  I didn't see any new hardware in your photos, but not all were shown.

[Zero Knievel]

From what I can tell, some new bolts were used for the springs.  I’m guessing some either sheared or had to be cut off.  The mounts were otherwise okay.

[blackhawkxx]

3 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:

The mounts were otherwise okay.

Are you sure the spring hangers were not changed?  They are black in your photo with everything else being brown.

 

[Zero Knievel]

I have the replacements still in their bags.  There are spots of rust on those hangers.  The replacements are spotless.

[superhawk996]

On 6/19/2023 at 11:31 AM, blackhawkxx said:

Are you sure the spring hangers were not changed?  They are black in your photo with everything else being brown.

 

The hangars get different paint, possibly powder coat.  And it's likely that they're made of better metal which would also help them as the paint fails.