jon haney Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, tomek said: Yes, that's how I measured my sag, and looks like I have some of the "good" forks. The air-gap size vs. sag thing could be measured, if stiction was completely eliminated. Of course, that is not practical. Even then, it would probably be less than a millimeter, but physics dictates that there would be a difference (everything else being equal). A practical difference? No. Edited October 6, 2021 by jon haney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Fork is not air tight like a tire. The air will leak out thru seals on legs and tops, and adjusters on top if equipped. So it does not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 On 10/6/2021 at 1:04 PM, tomek said: Fork is not air tight like a tire. The air will leak out thru seals on legs and tops, and adjusters on top if equipped. So it does not matter. How does the air travel down through the oil then separate from the oil to get out through the seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, superhawk996 said: How does the air travel down through the oil then separate from the oil to get out through the seal? You've made retarded statement and now spin, muddy the water,etc. What else is new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 8 hours ago, tomek said: You've made retarded statement and now spin, muddy the water,etc. What else is new. Just a simple question since you said air will escape through the seal. So how does it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 7 hours ago, superhawk996 said: Just a simple question since you said air will escape through the seal. So how does it? Have you ever seen fork seal and slider in 3D? Apparently not. Have you ever taken cartridge forks completely apart? Apparently not. Etc. Has any male in Alvarez family has ever admitted of being wrong on anything? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 1 minute ago, tomek said: Have you ever seen fork seal and slider in 3D? Apparently not. Have you ever taken cartridge forks completely apart? Apparently not. Etc. Has any male in Alvarez family has ever admitted of being wrong on anything? I don't think so. Yes to all your questions. So, how does the air above the oil get out through the seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Back when air pressurized forks were a thing they did eventually leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, SwampNut said: Back when air pressurized forks were a thing they did eventually leak So he contacted you for help. What else is new. Lol. Because you know, pressurized fork from 1983 is just like modern cartridge one. Edited October 8, 2021 by tomek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 5 hours ago, superhawk996 said: Yes to all your questions. So, how does the air above the oil get out through the seal? This thread once again reminded me why I have you on ignore. I can't deal with your stubborn stupidity and inability to learn anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Let me guess, doubled down on the refusal to actually answer? I'm not gonna show the posts, it's far more amusing to just take wild guesses. I don't even have a position on it, but the quoted bits are hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 On 10/8/2021 at 3:10 PM, SwampNut said: Let me guess, doubled down on the refusal to actually answer? I'm not gonna show the posts, it's far more amusing to just take wild guesses. I don't even have a position on it, but the quoted bits are hilarious. Tripled down. Talk shit, cast insults....typical Tomek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Let me guess, a little racism too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 No, not yet at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 He bitched about my stubborn stupidity and inability to learn anything, but he won't answer the question so I won't have the opportunity to learn the secrets hidden away in The Professional's mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Maybe when he's done huffing acetone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Looks like beta male bro called wanna be alpha male bro for help, and now are having discussion about me. I'm flattered, I need all attention I can get. Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Yea, Carlos and I had a lengthy discussion trying to figure out how air drives itself down through oil to get to the seal while the bike is parked. After agonizingly long seconds of trying and getting nowhere we conceded that The Professional is way smarter than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 First I thought, "was I drinking? We never talked about this." Then I got the sarcasm. Some people are running pressure in the KTM, it's the 80s all over again. I've bottomed it once, doing shit I shouldn't do on an Adv bike, but still have a bit of compression adjustment to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, SwampNut said: Some people are running pressure in the KTM, it's the 80s all over again. I hope the factory KTM oil is air resistant otherwise they'll be deflated in no time. Using air pressure might not be ideal, or could be in some conditions. Edited October 13, 2021 by superhawk996 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 They are upside down forks, so the air goes on the bottom and the oil on top. Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 So, are you done with your brotherly circle jerk yet? Yes? Good, let's bring closure to some of blithering nonsense suggested here. So, let's say fork tops are airtight like tire, and would absolutely and positively never ever leak any air in or out. The sag on the front end on street bikes will be in 30-40 mm range. Let's say you are 20 mm off from recommended fluid level. Like 130 mm instead of 110 mm. This graph is from Ohlins cartridge kit for my R1, and illustrates relation between fork travel and oil level vs. air spring effect. It clearly illustrates in range of 30-40mm of fork travel (the sag) the difference in air spring would be less then 5 N for oil level being off by 20mm. 5 N = 0.5 kg. Typical fork spring has a rate of 1.0kg/mm. So oil level being off by 20mm would change the sag by 0.5 mm. Totally irrelevant and not even possible to measure. Lol. That was classic superhawk996 maneuver in the garage. Post something stupid, then run for help to his brother. Lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXBirdSlapper Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 39 minutes ago, tomek said: So, are you done with your brotherly circle jerk yet? Yes? Good, let's bring closure to some of blithering nonsense suggested here. Don't take the bait Tomek. They don't respect you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) Why people continue to go to The Garage for garage advice is a mystery. Edit: Nice chart Tomek clearly showing the progressive nature of the air gap. Edited October 15, 2021 by fizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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