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  1. Today
  2. xrated
    LOL........"test/torture" comment. Have fun testing/learning. I remember back when I did the initial, and so far the only top balance on my cells after I built them and can remember thinking......this is the true test of the "quality" of my build, the cells, and all my newly made connections. With a bit of tweaking, my final top balance resulted in in three of the four cells hitting the 3.65 and the other hitting 3.64. After pulling the balance charger off of the battery and letting it rest, all four cells were the exact same voltage. Even today, two plus years later, after a full charge on the battery (I use 14.2 volts as the max, not 14.6) I will see them settle down and usually end up with .002 volts to maybe .003 volts differential between the highest cell and the lowest cell reading. That number is perfectly acceptable and personally I would not get too concerned unless the differential voltage gets somewhere north of .050 volts while they are charging, and/or doesn't drop down to .010 volts after resting. Like I stated above, mine usually hit the .002 to .003 volts after a charge and then a resting period. I usually check that out after about 4 hours of resting after a charge.
  3. superhawk996
    Maybe. When I opened the second battery the 4 groups of cells were nearly perfectly balanced as far as resting voltage, but as soon as I started charging one group of cells went way higher than the others, I stopped and didn't do any more investigating. It sounds like the smart thing is to drop these in the trash can and forget they existed.....which means I have to test/torture them to learn more first.
  4. Yesterday
  5. xrated
    Not having a BMS for them would be a no go for me...Dead Stop! The group of cells that went to 4 volts is likely toast. If they are in fact LFP chemistry, they are "safer" than Li-ION battery as far as fire/explosion but I'd never try to use them without a BMS. The DALY brand BMS that I bought is one of the cheaper ones out there and IIRC, the 200A Smart version that I bought (smart meaning BlueTooth equipped to communicate with the DALY app.) was still over $100. You would obviously need something much larger for a BMS for starting a car/truck. If the battery was "newish" it might be worth buying a BMS for it, but considering it is not, plus you know that at least one set of cells has been WAY overstressed with 4+ volts, I don't think I'd be doing it. And the small internal printed circuit board could possible be a balancer board....but that is just a wild ass guess on my part.
  6. blackhawkxx
    Learn something new here daily as I didn't know what they were called.
  7. TOXXIC
    😂 Appears Outserts are also a thing. https://ethicsarchery.com/collections/outserts
  8. SwampNut
    Thanks auto-correct. Nutserts.
  9. TOXXIC
    Correct, thanks Siri. 😜 The lip of metal on a TJ is pretty low profile and single wall if memory serves. Oscar might know better. This past weekend I had to use an old school bungee with curved metal ends to get under the Jeep equipped lash points in the cargo area....look like footman loops. I like the track system idea to add great options and convenience for lashing down chairs, coolers, tool boxes etc. I am not familiar with "outserts"? I have used nutserts to attach to the frame and A pillor posts on prior rigs.
  10. superhawk996
    Maybe that's what got rid of the Quagga mussels.
  11. SwampNut
    For light use, self-tapping screws would be just fine to attach. Next up would be outserts if you have single sided access, and of course normal bolts and nuts is ideal. ...? Gunwale converted by Siri? The cargo area lip should be just like a truck bed right? Where they are meant to go?
  12. SwampNut
    It's interesting that we've both spent many years using and researching LiFePO4 batteries and managed to "learn" opposite things. Most of my applications have been for high current, because that is what they are great at. Lipos do this in super-high current demands... LiFePO4 packs can do insane current and barely warm up--both in and out. I can't even remember what C levels I've run them to, but the only time I managed to damage a very large pack (with lots of heat buildup) it was depleted in under five minutes. It had multiple series and parallel cells in one unit. That boat was able to run multiple packs or singles, in various series/parallel configurations. Well I left the motor controller in full mode with a single pack. It may still be on fire at the bottom of Lake Pleasant.
  13. tomek
    Pessimist.
  14. Zero Knievel
    Page 5 here we come!
  15. superhawk996
    One more derailment/battery question. This is for the UPS batteries I'm running in the diesels, also as a house battery for the motorhome. If I'm understanding and converting the "watts per cell" correctly, it means that the battery can put out a bit over 150 amps for 15 minutes from fully charged to discharged; is that correct? My math: Fully charged cell, just over 2.1v- 300w would be around 140a. At 1.67v 300w would be just shy of 180a. UPS12-300MR Specifications Voltage: 12 volt Amp Hour: 78.6 AH at the 20 hour rate Watts per Cell: 300 at 15 minute rate to 1.67 VPC Terminal Type: Threaded Receptacle Normal operating temperature range -40F/-40C to 160F/71C Float charging voltage 13.65 ± 0.15 VDC average per 12V unit (6.75 to 6.90 per 6V unit) Charging current – can be safely recharged at high current rates Flame retardant case and cover meet UL 1778
  16. superhawk996
    Photos of the internal beauty. 4 groups of 7 cells and a small circuit board. I don't know what the board is supposed to do, but it has tiny LEDs that I've seen light up red when a group of cells went way high or way low.
  17. superhawk996
    I have a pair of Xing Cell brand car size batteries that my friend bought that I think are garbage. I don't know what the quality of the cells is, no markings on them makes me think generic crap. There's no BMS which scares me away from using them. On a 6a charger one group of cells went over 4 volts while another was around 3.2v. The 4+ was still rising when I killed the charger. Is this as dangerous as I think it is? Potential for fire, or just potential death of the cells? Is there a cheap BMS you would recommend for using them as starting batteries? The case is car sized, the bundle of cells inside is about the size of a Harley battery, maybe a bit smaller. They measure 500CCA on my simple tester and a little lower on my better tester which analyzes them with a load and with charging current. I tried them in a boat with a 3 liter 4 cylinder inboard and my 6 cyl. 3.2L. Porsche and they cranked about as expected for 500CCA. I later discovered the lack of a BMS, I'm glad I didn't leave either one in the vehicles for actual use.
  18. superhawk996
    For comparison, the retired UPS batteries in my diesels are rated at 78ah and have a measured CCA of over 1200. Their actual cranking performance seems to support what the tester said they could do. I was quite surprised with their cranking ability since they're small, a couple years old, and not designed for cranking. They do weigh as much as bigger batteries, that part jives with the high power.
  19. xrated
    No, I'm not confusing the two. Generally speaking, LFP batteries intended purpose is what is typically called Deep Cycle type batteries. Having said that, will they crank engines over?......the answer of course is based on the load current for the starter, and just how much peak or pulse current that they can provide without triggering the controlling BMS that is built into them. Mine for example, will easily start the onboard Onan 5500W generator with absolutely zero (no pun intended) issues. That starter on that generator will normally pull in the 100 to 110 amps while cranking the engine to life. And as far as my DIY battery cells, the data sheet does say that for a "peak pulse", it can do 2C for 30 seconds. The key to that number though is that the standard 1C discharge rate is equal to 250 amps. So yes, the cell itself is capable (so they say) of doing 500 amps for a max. time of 30 seconds.....but again, we are talking about a BARE CELL.....not a completed battery that is controlled by a BMS. And here is the important thing to remember in this conversation....Just ONE of my Four cells, is larger than the ENTIRE NOCO battery in question here, and the battery of course is comprised of 4 LiFePO cells internally connected in series to to get to the nominal 13.2V of a LFP battery. So if ONE of my cells can produce 500A for a peak time and the entire NOCO battery is smaller than one of my cells, it is simply not realistic that the NOCO is able to produce a 500 amps....even at Peak or Pulse. As Carlos stated earlier though, it really doesn't matter that much if all the advertised ratings are being greatly exaggerated. The battery's purpose is likely sized to be able to start a motorcycle, garden tractor, snowmobile, jet ski, etc. Those engines just do not have the starter current draw of say a car/truck engine or maybe a boat engine with a 350 cu in V8 motor in it
  20. Zero Knievel
    Yes. Bad, bad me.
  21. superhawk996
    I assume you meant amps, not watts.
  22. Zero Knievel
    To be fair, NOCO says 500 watts “peak.” Which may be accurate. Lots of things hav peak output but there’s no guarantee you’ll get it at any given time.
  23. TOXXIC started following Adding L-Track to a truck bed
  24. TOXXIC
    I don’t know shit about this track stuff but was trying to visualize how to put it on the floor of the TJ or somehow fab a way to put it under the gun rail in the rear cargo area,
  25. superhawk996
    Mike, NOCO and Antigravity are both well known for being good. Either should serve you well, so get a Chinesium counterpart so you have something to bitch about later. Make sure you strap it down properly, start a 57 page thread if needed. This reminds me of the amount of abuse I served up to my first Battery Tender branded LiFePo, poor bastard. It was run down to several times, left sitting, then usually jump started because I was impatient and didn't want to wait to charge it properly. When the next Bird showed up I bought another BT brand battery, and it has also been abused, tho maybe not as badly. It's amazing to me that the bike can sit for several months and still crank long enough for the carbs to fill and the engine to fire up.
  26. superhawk996
    It appears that you are confusing amp hours with cranking amps. The generally accepted 'rule' is that CCA is over seven times higher than AH. The sustained current limit on your batteries may be 1C, but I bet they'll put out WAY more if asked to.
  27. superhawk996
    I don't know how many LiFePo battery factories/suppliers there are, but the batteries are definitely different between different brands.
  28. SwampNut
    LOL, I figured maybe you were going with reverse psychology.
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