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1500 Wing Help


blackhawkxx
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Just throwing this out there in case someone has some thoughts on chasing down this problem.  My son has a low mileage 1500 Wing that he rides daily, like a car, just loves to ride.  The other day it started tapping, like a lifter tap but ran perfect.  He pulled the valve cover and he was getting little to no oil to the top of the head.  He changed oil and filter and added SeaFoam, no change.  He installed a oil pressure gauge and it has full pressure per manual.  To me, there almost has to be a clogged oil passage to the head, maybe a piece of gasket.  I suggested trying to blow air backwards through the head passages the best he can.  Any thoughts or ideas how to find the problem without a full tear down?

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I’m not a fan of motor flush products, BUT would something like that help “de-gunk” any oil passages?

 

As a side note, my first motorcycle had that issue.  It resulted in a nut coming loose from one of the pistons.  I never did a tear down because my dad told me not to fuck with it.  When it failed, the nut broke the primary chain and it fell into the oil pan.  Could have seized the gearbox.  To be fair, I bought the bike from someone who rebuilt the engine, so likely not the case here, but it started with a noise like what you describe.  If high octane fuel and flushing the motor doesn’t make the sound stop, I’d do a tear down just because it’s not worth risking total failure.  If it’s a blocked oil passage, it will lead to issues in the future.

Edited by Zero Knievel
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1 hour ago, Zero Knievel said:

I’m not a fan of motor flush products, BUT would something like that help “de-gunk” any oil passages?

Like I said, he used SeaFoam in a fresh oil change.   I doubt there is gunk but could be some kind of other debris. 

 

1 hour ago, Zero Knievel said:

It resulted in a nut coming loose from one of the pistons.

I have never seen a nut in connection with a piston unless you are talking about the connecting rod cap.

Edited by blackhawkxx
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10 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

Just throwing this out there in case someone has some thoughts on chasing down this problem.  My son has a low mileage 1500 Wing that he rides daily, like a car, just loves to ride.  The other day it started tapping, like a lifter tap but ran perfect.  He pulled the valve cover and he was getting little to no oil to the top of the head.  He changed oil and filter and added SeaFoam, no change.  He installed a oil pressure gauge and it has full pressure per manual.  To me, there almost has to be a clogged oil passage to the head, maybe a piece of gasket.  I suggested trying to blow air backwards through the head passages the best he can.  Any thoughts or ideas how to find the problem without a full tear down?

 

If he has access to a mityvac (probable), use it to see if any of the passages are clogged, maybe before he blows shit back into general circulation. Who knows, it might even suck the purported item out.

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3 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:

I’m not a fan of motor flush products, BUT would something like that help “de-gunk” any oil passages?

 

As a side note, my first motorcycle had that issue.  It resulted in a nut coming loose from one of the pistons.  I never did a tear down because my dad told me not to fuck with it.  When it failed, the nut broke the primary chain and it fell into the oil pan.  Could have seized the gearbox.  To be fair, I bought the bike from someone who rebuilt the engine, so likely not the case here, but it started with a noise like what you describe.  If high octane fuel and flushing the motor doesn’t make the sound stop, I’d do a tear down just because it’s not worth risking total failure.  If it’s a blocked oil passage, it will lead to issues in the future.

Is it serious post, or are you just just being you? 

My head almost exploded when I read it. 

11 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

Just throwing this out there in case someone has some thoughts on chasing down this problem.  My son has a low mileage 1500 Wing that he rides daily, like a car, just loves to ride.  The other day it started tapping, like a lifter tap but ran perfect.  He pulled the valve cover and he was getting little to no oil to the top of the head.  He changed oil and filter and added SeaFoam, no change.  He installed a oil pressure gauge and it has full pressure per manual.  To me, there almost has to be a clogged oil passage to the head, maybe a piece of gasket.  I suggested trying to blow air backwards through the head passages the best he can.  Any thoughts or ideas how to find the problem without a full tear down?

Oil pressure gauge, but where is it hooked up to? Was pressure measured on hot engine? Has he pulled valve covers on both sides, no oil on the other side as well? Ii is boxer, two heads. 

That would be the start. Oil pan drop would be next.

Edited by tomek
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Does it happen on cold engine as well, or is not related to temperature.

What is the frequency of the tap, crankshaft speed or cam speed? One cam rotation for two crank rotations. Or does it sound like rod bearing going off? Does it depend on engine load? 

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30 minutes ago, tomek said:

Is it serious post, or are you just just being you? 

My head almost exploded when I read it. 


Yes.  All that actually happened.

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1 hour ago, tomek said:

 

 Has he pulled valve covers on both sides, no oil on the other side as well? 

 

 

Is there wear on the cam and rockers?  

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2 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:


Yes.  All that actually happened.

The tapping sound was coming from bearing going off on black helicopter hoovering over your head.

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Which cylinder bank manifests the tapping sound (right or left as one sits on the bike)?

Does he usually leave it on the side stand or the center stand? 

Left on the side stand, oil will drain from the right side bank; valve/lifter tapping upon startup can happen--but should diminish as the engine warms and oil is circulated.

If it persists with a warm engine (assuming proper oil level/viscosity), do not ignore it--something is wrong. The boxer six should be relatively quiet and hum evenly; any unexplained recurring noise is a red flag.

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What year model?  2000 SE Anniversary model. Ridden just about every day.

Oil pressure gauge was hooked up where the oil pressure sensor goes per manual.  Bike was hot.

I asked about pulling the other valve cover, he had not at that time.

At first, it was only when hot but now it happens hot or cold.  Running it with the valve cover off, very little oil coming out and you can see a difference in movement between two of them.  The manual calls them lifters but are actually lash adjusters.  They seem to be not getting the oil to pump them up therefore the tap is heard. 

My son is a mechanic and says the sound is like a lifter tap.

The problem is on the left side.

We are trying to work out how to chase this without doing unnecessary work and money.

Thanks for the responses.  

 

 

Edited by blackhawkxx
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He seems to have found the problem.  He removed the front of the motor, timing belt and then the whole rocker assembly on the head.  The oil should flow from the head through the assembly.  He then took a .035 mig wire and ran it through the oil passage in the  head.  Could feel something and poked through it.  Couldn't see what it was.  Put it back together and ran it with the valve cover off and is now getting plenty of oil and no noise.  Hopefully it isn't something that will reappear but even if it does, at least he has a clue.  

Thanks again for the help.

image.thumb.jpeg.ab4ba10e5037baf4bdd46a4b1a15224b.jpeg

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5 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

He seems to have found the problem.  He removed the front of the motor, timing belt and then the whole rocker assembly on the head.  The oil should flow from the head through the assembly.  He then took a .035 mig wire and ran it through the oil passage in the  head.  Could feel something and poked through it.  Couldn't see what it was.  Put it back together and ran it with the valve cover off and is now getting plenty of oil and no noise.  Hopefully it isn't something that will reappear but even if it does, at least he has a clue.  

Thanks again for the help.

image.thumb.jpeg.ab4ba10e5037baf4bdd46a4b1a15224b.jpeg

Sweet!

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Btw, going back to OP. Knowing what we know now I'd definitely drop oil pan, and remove oil pump, oil pick up, etc. and examine everything. Should not be too time consuming. 

Edited by tomek
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We have talked about chasing the unknown debris but it may be like a needle in a hay stack.  Don't know if it was something that broke up or if the oil filter caught it.  If he ever has any other oil related issue, then it will be a full on search.

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