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Dumb 4WD Question


rockmeupto125
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Yep.  I've seen several stuck in the mud with only one front and one rear tire spinning.  Also happens on GM's when people use the wrong diff fluid.  GM limited slip differentials (calling it an LSD is too easy of a joke for the minions here) are called out on the SPI label typically in the glovebox as G80.  The other G code next to it is the gear ratio.  I know you probably know that but just in case...

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Common. I've owned both varieties. For lighter duty off road, or urban suburban snow duty it was fine. The first semi serious mud hole I hit too slow showed the limitations real quick.

On the upside their is less to fail/maintain and smoother manners.

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3 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said:

Yeah, I went to look at an f250 the other day and got the code off the pumpkin. Wuut??? 

Original owner, and he had had it took care of at Ford, so I doubt there's anything hinky going on 


I see Skywalker has yet to learn his lesson.  There is no Force to be found in this one.

https://dieselpowergear.com/blogs/diesel-power-news/the-5-worst-diesel-trucks-to-buy-used

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/look-inside-ford-power-stroke-diesel-with-catastrophic-damage/
 

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3 outa five worst are Chevys, good thing he's looking at Fords.  As for that 6.7; yup, great way to show how neglecting/abusing a motor will destroy it.

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Pre-Duramax.  That includes the engine used in the Humvee.  Difference is GM learned their lesson by 2001 or so and tagged in Isuzu engines and Allison transmissions (except in the Humvee.)  Ironically about the same time Ford started selling their 6.grenades to the public.

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3 hours ago, Furbird said:

 

The 5 Worst Diesel Trucks To Buy Used

Are you thinking about buying a used heavy-duty diesel truck?

 

 

3/4 and 1-ton trucks are NOT heavy-duty trucks. 

 

I can attest that the statement regarding the 6.0 is an outright lie.  And the 6.0 is a great motor if you don't fuck with it, OR if you do a couple things to improve longevity.  With a few exceptions, slapping tuners on without going inside the motor is asking for trouble - and that's where a lot of the 6.0 issues came from. 

 

DieselBrothers are marketers and entertainers.  The referenced page is no doubt something they put their name on and sold (they're marketers).  From the looks of it, it's a bot.  Read the comments to check on the audience there.

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4 hours ago, IcePrick said:

 

The 5 Worst Diesel Trucks To Buy Used

Are you thinking about buying a used heavy-duty diesel truck?

 

 

3/4 and 1-ton trucks are NOT heavy-duty trucks. 

 

I can attest that the statement regarding the 6.0 is an outright lie.  And the 6.0 is a great motor if you don't fuck with it, OR if you do a couple things to improve longevity.  With a few exceptions, slapping tuners on without going inside the motor is asking for trouble - and that's where a lot of the 6.0 issues came from. 

 

DieselBrothers are marketers and entertainers.  The referenced page is no doubt something they put their name on and sold (they're marketers).  From the looks of it, it's a bot.  Read the comments to check on the audience there.

The 6.n0 was so bad that there were tons of lawsuits.  Many from people who died because their ambulance/paramedic truck died, those are totally stock and generally well maintained.  Ford bought back shit tons of trucks/excursions over it, one of my friends almost bought one after it had been "fixed" by Ford numerous times.  I've had a few customers with totally stock ones that had numerous problems.

 

BUT, give me a properly prepped 6.0 and I'd dump my 7.3.  Cure the looming hand grenades and it's a great motor backed by a great trans in a newer truck with some nicer stuff.

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Exactly.  I know probably 50 people that have had (keyword) 6.0 diesel Fords and not a single one of those people has not had to have the cab pulled off to have something done.  Running a tuner or totally stock, SOMETHING always broke that required the cab pulled.  One was just valve cover gaskets (but it became one of those "well while you're there..." deals).  Just like some of the best diesel people in the world will tell you if you buy a used 6.0 get it CHEAP because it WILL HAVE TO BE BULLETPROOFED.

I don't think I've ever looked at Cummins Dodge with a 4 speed auto that had the original trans.  They were all either remans, swapped from a wrecked truck, or aftermarket.

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5 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said:

Just to add fuel...

...to the oil, they're good at that.

 

I'm not sure if I should hope that you get your deal or that he tells you to fuck off, either might be a blessing depending on how lucky you are with the motor lasting.

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5 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said:

Just to add fuel...

This is a 6.4 that had a new from Ford engine 65k miles ago. Runs quite nicely but it has a cracked exhaust manifold so it's not too expensive, and I'm trying to get him a little lower. 


Didn't you JUST have one of these blow up on you?

I have never, repeat, NEVER inspected a rebuilt 6.4 powered ANYTHING.  They don't rebuild these.  For a reason.  If the engine runs, they sell it while it still does.  If it doesn't, they sell what's left of the body to keep other trucks on the road.

Here's Diesel World and Motor Trend talking about all of the issues with pictures of cracked pistons, exhaust failures, diluted oil (like Oscar just said), blocks cracking, and the list goes on and on.  And this was supposed to be the savior from the HORRIFIC 6.nuke!

https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel-technology/6-4l-failures/

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/top-5-ford-powerstroke-diesel-engine-problems/

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On 7/16/2022 at 11:23 AM, rockmeupto125 said:

I looked a a 4wd truck and saw that it didn't have a posi/limited slip rear diff. It seemed odd to me. Is that normal?? 

I never had a 4wd truck that had limited slip and never had a issue in the snow.  The lack of traction lock also helps to keep the back end straight when in 2wd and hitting snowy patches IMO.

Edited by blackhawkxx
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I've never had an issue with snow with any vehicle, because I know to stay away from that shit.

 

Not true, I've been caught in snow and ice in two different FWD cars and they did quite well.  In one case I got learned that bridges really do ice over even when the rest of the  road is fine.  Luckily the car could only go 128 so I wasn't going too fast when it started drifting, the bridge was a curve, bonus.  I kept the throttle pinned and steered left to keep it pointed where I wanted to go and let the right rear tire rub along the snow on the side of the road.  Luckily I was asleep when the drift started or it might have scared me into doing something stupid.

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20 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

I never had a 4wd truck that had limited slip and never had a issue in the snow.  The lack of traction lock also helps to keep the back end straight when in 2wd and hitting snowy patches IMO.

The one truck I had w/o limited slip was really weak in heavy snow/mud. My 3500 dually is a trenching machine. Launching my boat on the Mississippi one time late in the year after flooding had filled everything up to the Levy with river sediment was fun. We almost died as the river began making ice, got back on the trailer with no time to spare, and then learned the mudd capabilities of that truck. It was impressive 

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Every truck (any size) should come with a rear axle limited-slip (or better) as standard, and not that bull-shit "active-brake" LS they advertise as a suitable substitute.  That has to be the biggest joke in the truck world.

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My Bronco with rear LS tried to kill me coming off the back of Mt Lemmon when it was covered in snow and ice.  It probably helped me get up there, and was trying to help me get down in the absolutely fastest way possible.  Yeah, nah, I'll stick with selectable lockers and something like the Jeep's hill decent control if I ever get in that shit again.

 

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8 hours ago, jon haney said:

Every truck (any size) should come with a rear axle limited-slip (or better) as standard, and not that bull-shit "active-brake" LS they advertise as a suitable substitute.  That has to be the biggest joke in the truck world.

I agree, but for those doing limited 4WD stuff they'll never need it.

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10 hours ago, jon haney said:

Every truck (any size) should come with a rear axle limited-slip (or better) as standard, and not that bull-shit "active-brake" LS they advertise as a suitable substitute.  That has to be the biggest joke in the truck world.

I'd take a good working active brake system over any LS carrier ever made in most situations, and 100% vote for it for anyone not very well versed in dealing with/optimizing a LS.

 

Guessing you haven't tried one, or if you did it was a shitty one.  Carlos and I played with it in his Rubicon and it did almost everything the lockers can both up and down hill, WAY better than a LS would do.  My Talon uses the brakes in place of a front locker, like other UTVs use, and it works pretty well, way better than a LS would do.

 

LS requires a certain amount of torque on the slipping tire to then transfer a percentage of that to the gripping tire so if one is in the air or on super slick ground it sends nearly nothing to the one with grip.  If both are on slick stuff they'll get about equal power and act like a locker, control goes out the window.  The electronic systems can lock the slipping tire if needed and send 100% of the torque to the gripping one, if it's programmed to.  It's likely that different model vehicles get different level of aggressiveness in their systems.  They can do this when needed and stop when not needed so they won't fuck with handling like a LS will.

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11 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Guessing you haven't tried one

 

Usually what I find when people tell me that Jeep system was "useless."

 

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I have had two trucks with the "active brake" system.  A 2012 F-150 FX-2, and now a 2017 Frontier Pro-4x.  Both appeared AWOL, unless it was real slick.  One-wheel peel for anything other than snow or ice.  For rock crawling, of course a selectable locker is king.  Not many rocks around here.  I'm mostly on pavement or the occasional dirt road.  I doubt I will ever get into the stuff you guys do.  I'm just a different kind of driver.

I put an Auburn Gear LS in the F-150, which was okay.  The frontier now has a Detroit Trutrac, which makes no noise, and if you are on the gas, both wheels are rotating together.  If I had more power, dry pavement power-slides would have me on a first name basis with the local tire store.  When it gets slippery, I have traction control, which is awesome in 4 high.  For dry conditions, it's too sensitive, and turned off.

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"A selectable locker is king" until you want to steer.  I've had factory LS, auto lockers, and selectable lockers.  I think if I was building something it I'd use Trutrac or an auto locker, or possibly both depending on the vehicle.  I kinda hated the auto locker in the rear of my manual trans XJ, but it was fine it an auto trans XJ, they were also different lockers so it wasn't apples to apples, but it's easier to drive an auto locker with an auto trans.

 

I got to drive an XJ with a combination that "everyone" knows is retarded, open rear and auto lock front.  I knew it was wrong, and it worked so well.  I later installed an auto lock rear and that thing was incredible.

 

My current Jeep has selectable F&R, they work great, but when you want to steer you have to plan ahead or deal with a stuck locker that you have to 'unload' to get it to unlock.

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