tomek Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, XXitanium said: ...it's usually drier, thus less dense. The 90 deg air is about 10 % less dense then 30 deg air. Humidity is pretty irrelevant . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 7 hours ago, superhawk996 said: E-10 should get less MPG and lower power than pure gas. Agree on mpg , power - it depends. Old carb engines and early motorcycle efi without oxygen sensors will make less power , but modern engines will make more with increased ethanol content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 7 hours ago, superhawk996 said: And I think that colder air going into the engine can lower MPG also, only tested it once and it wasn't a perfect test. Colder air has more oxygen so it would make more HP which would let you back of the gas peddle to drive the same mph there by using less gas. That is how it played out in my head anyway. ☺️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, tomek said: Agree on mpg , power - it depends. Old carb engines and early motorcycle efi without oxygen sensors will make less power , but modern engines will make more with increased ethanol content. They can make more hp if they are tuned to take advantage of it but I'm not sure that your average car is as mpg seems to have a higher priority than hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 It will adjust to correct afr, cat converter durability and emmisions are priority . EPA does not care for WOT operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 3 hours ago, tomek said: 10 hours ago, superhawk996 said: E-10 should get less MPG and lower power than pure gas. Agree on mpg , power - it depends. Old carb engines and early motorcycle efi without oxygen sensors will make less power , but modern engines will make more with increased ethanol content. How can E-10 make more power when it has lower BTU? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 3 hours ago, blackhawkxx said: Colder air has more oxygen so it would make more HP which would let you back of the gas peddle to drive the same mph there by using less gas. That is how it played out in my head anyway. ☺️ You're right, you can back off the peddle, but the air/fuel ratio should remain the same so that should make no difference. Heat helps atomize the fuel so it burns more completely so cold air could have a negative effect on efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, tomek said: It will adjust to correct afr, cat converter durability and emmisions are priority . EPA does not care for WOT operation. I believe you contradicted your own statement about the system adjusting to make more power, or are you saying that the EPA doesn't care about WOT and therefore the system will adjust to optimize power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 7 hours ago, XXitanium said: ...it's usually drier, thus less dense. High humidity actually decreases drag more so than temperature change. But both are tiny changes you'd probably never notice in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, superhawk996 said: How can E-10 make more power when it has lower BTU? Because afr is different. Stoich for for gasoline is 14.7 , for ethanol is much lower, something like 9-10 iirc. So the end result is more power. The other thing is heat of evaporation. It is couple times higher for ethanol plus you inject about 40-50 % more vs. gasoline. It lowers temps of intake charge better then gasoline. End result is denser charge inside of cylinders. That's about it. I'm out. You have nasty habit of twisting my posts, I'm tired of educating you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 5 hours ago, superhawk996 said: How can E-10 make more power when it has lower BTU? The way I understand it is that the motor can make more HP because you can run more timing but you are burning more fuel. I see it on new Mustangs that they run E-85 with a tune for it and make more power than gas. Where it really shines is when you add boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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