superhawk996 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share Posted July 15, 2014 Get a load test on your battery It measures 144CCA on my tester and the voltage at rest is 12.1 so it's got an issue. After charging it rapidly drops to that then seems to stay there, at least for two days that I've tested. Applying a charge it'll jump up in voltage quickly, another sign that it's bad. Don't know it's age; it was in the bike when I got it and it sat quite a bit. It usually cranks decently, not great, and a few times it's been obviously slow cranking. They suck. I have had two in a row fail under 6 months. Must be luck, most of my fleet is running Everstarts. The one in my motorhome was finally sounding weak after 9 years so I replaced it. I continued using the 9 yr old for stuff around the house about another year. Get a load test on your battery It measures 144CCA on my tester and the voltage at rest is 12.1 so it's got an issue. After charging it rapidly drops to that then seems to stay there, at least for two days that I've tested. Applying a charge it'll jump up in voltage quickly, another sign that it's bad. Don't know it's age; it was in the bike when I got it and it sat quite a bit. It usually cranks decently, not great, and a few times it's been obviously slow cranking. They suck. I have had two in a row fail under 6 months. Must be luck, most of my fleet is running Everstarts. The one in my motorhome was finally sounding weak after 9 years so I replaced it, takes a lot of cranking to get the carb full to start it and being a 440 engine I'm guessing a few amps. I continued using the 9 yr old for stuff around the house about another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 They suck. I have had two in a row fail under 6 months. I agree, totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) I just swapped the battery. The old one is an Everstart that's several years old and is the one for the earlier bird, ES12BS. Had I known they were the same size Ida bought the everstart when I was at Walmart, but I do like that I gave the bike some bling. With the new batt. it idles at about 13.6v and revved it's at 14.8. The manual for the battery states that it can be charged with a standard charger not exceeding 14.8v, I don't feel good about being right at their limit, but it is within the specs from the Honda manual. The new batt. is smaller and much lighter and it starts so quick it's hard to tell how much faster it's cranking, but it is faster. The fuel pump sounds to be spinning faster too. Things I dislike about the new battery: the terminal screw holes are smaller than the standard 6mm screws, I knew that from reading reviews so I was prepared to drill them. It came without hardware and it's supposed to have it. Probably wouldn't have worked anyway, but - points for their screw-up. Upsides other than size, weight, and power is it has two sets of terminals which is nice for those adding stuff. Edited July 18, 2014 by superhawk996 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) John01XX +1 Working in a service department, I see most everyone that buys a new battery just installs the new battery without fully charging it first. Just buy it and drop it in and away they go. The memory is now set for the battery at a much lower level than it is capable of and will remain there for the life of the battery which will be considerable shorter. It is always best to trickle charge a brand new battery overnight before applying a load to it for the first time. I am currently trying my luck with the new lithium iron phosphate battery from BatteryStuff.com (Scorpion brand). After 4 months use it has been flawless and spins the engine over about twice as fast as my previous Yuasa. Much higher cranking amps and no battery tender needed. Only documented downside they have is the fact that they do not work well in cold environments. They say to turn the key and headlight on for a few seconds first to warm the battery up before hitting the starter button! Not a problem for me here in So Florida as we never experience a cold environment! The big difference is in weight or the lack there of. My new lithium weighs less than 2 lbs!!! I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to explain. http://phys.org/news/2013-04-memory-effect-lithium-ion-batteries.html Are you just describing LI batteries? ....so last summer, when my stator went, I grabbed a brand new AGM over by Sault St Marie. I bolted it in and rode. I ran it dry charged it, ran it dry again, charged it - took out my other head lamp. ...rode for a couple more hours. I stopped at a Harley dealer - They checked and said it was basically "Full". I have the slip they printed out somewhere. FI must not be much of a draw. Having trouble with the quote feature..... Edited July 19, 2014 by XXitanium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Guessing he's referring to common lead acid batteries. You're supposed to fill them, wait for the acid to penetrate the cells (30 min. or more ), then slowly charge before use. If you don't wait and/or don't charge them before using it'll shorten it's life, but it has nothing to do with memory effect. The discharge to start and the fast charge from the alternator damages the plates some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John01XX Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Guessing he's referring to common lead acid batteries. You're supposed to fill them, wait for the acid to penetrate the cells (30 min. or more ), then slowly charge before use. If you don't wait and/or don't charge them before using it'll shorten it's life, but it has nothing to do with memory effect. The discharge to start and the fast charge from the alternator damages the plates some. This is what I was trying to say as explained to me by a Yuasa battery rep. for lead acid batteries He said that when a battery is filled with acid the first time that it generates approximately a 60% charge level. If you put it on a charger it will rise up to the 100% capacity level for that particular battery. If you install said battery in the bike at the 60% charge level and put it under load, the battery then sets its 100% capacity at the 60% charge level. The battery will then always recharge only up to that 60% level for the life of the battery. The key being that what ever charge level the battery is at when it is put under load for the first time determines the charge level for the life of the battery. I do not know if this is scientific fact or just sales BS but it came from someone knowledgeable within the Battery industry. Edited July 20, 2014 by John01XX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 This has me curious. Does anyone have a read on this from Yuasa? http://www.yuasabatteries.com/faqs.php?action=1&id=30 ...just wondering how much I mucked it (AGM) up..... http://www.phillipsind.com/upload/reference_material/file_1236015433.pdf So, how does one verify Cold Cranking Amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 I use a relatively cheap ($300ish) Midtronics tester that shows CCA and most auto parts stores and battery vendors use a similar tester. It uses some inductive frequency technological shit that I can't explain to determine CCA. It can also detect a bad cell, system draw, and other stuff. It's almost always been accurate from my 10+ years using it. I've had two false 'good' readings and both were on Ford trucks with diesel engines, otherwise I think it's been accurate. I now have a more advanced Midronics tester I've been using for almost a year that gives more information and does actual load and charging tests along with the inductive tests but it's a $3000 machine-the extra 0 wasn't a typo. You could use a simple load tester from Harbor Freight, but on a bike battery it may not be accurate as they're designed for car sized batteries. It could actually be dangerous to use it on a small batt. so I'd check it's specs before trying. None of my testers have a lithium setting, but the newer one can test individual components of a charging system so I plan to try it on the bike to see what it does. It should be able to "see" the stator and individual components of the R/R, but since it's designed for cars I'm not sure what it'll do. On a car it can detect individual components that have failed or are marginal in performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Interesting. Never heard this full charge before use issue discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 From my experience, any battery you have to fill you're supposed to charge; it's written on that piece of paper in the box (instruction manual) that you toss out of the way. If you buy factory filled batteries they're generally ready to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 My FI light has been flickering. I have no running issues. It's very intermittent. It flickered on the way in to work this morning. Checked the oil - I't'd just at the top of the add mark. It didn't flicker at all on the way home. I figure I can't test it if it's not glimmering, so I'll have to wait. I have a spare R/R from a grab box I bought out of the For Sale section. I'll stash it into my tank bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John01XX Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 grounds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC Randy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 My 99XX started flickering the FI light at about 40k. I would pull the plug on the test connector and exercise the contacts. This would last for probably 10k before it would come back. It became more frequent as the miles went by so I finally tried some Stabilant 22. My contacts looked as good as new, and not wanting to do the group soldering of the ground wires I thought it was worth a try. That was two years ago, I'm now at 87k, and so far the FI light has never been on. www.posthorn.com/Stab_2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 a dielectric grease on roids is what I am gathering from the Stabilant 22 site. cool stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I cleaned my battery terminals before work. Maybe it was my imagination, but the lights seemed a tad brighter. I was good till I got to the parking lot again. I made two hard lefthand turns into the lot and it lit up again. ....nothing blinked on the way home though. What's the best place to get an oil filter? Time for a change anyway. Take a reading on the centerstand? I got to the bottom of the flattened part - covered the whole cross-hatch. That's just to the add mark, right? I put some dielectric greease on the terminals while I was at it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 It wasn't the battery, started flickering again with some engine stumbles. This time it did it several times while going across bumpy sections of road so I got a little more information from it to work with. I pulled the ground test connector and tho they all looked good I disassembled both sides and re-crimped, cleaned, & tightened the terminals. While I was at it I pulled all the connectors and fuses under the seat and cleaned them, I found a few that looked questionable. If it continues to have issues I'll go ahead and solder the ground test wires to eliminate the possibility, but I don't like to alter stuff that doesn't need it. While I was already wrenching I installed my new-to-me Gilles rearsets. They're dumb looking on this bike, the only thing gold a white bike, but they feel great initially. I'll put some miles on them and if I still like them I'll either paint them or sell/trade to get a set in black or silver. BTW, the old everstart that was in the bike went into a '97 Honda Civic I had to move that had a completely dead and scarily bloated battery. I didn't expect it to be able to start the car, just wanted it to stabilize the alternator output while driving. It turns out it has a lot more power in it than I thought. The car died at one point, no idea why, and I was able to crank it quite a bit before the battery started sounding weak, pretty good for an old and damaged "neverstart" bike battery. The car fixed it's self the next morning and it fired up on the drained everstart and I've started it several more times to move it around the yard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 After several tries to find the culprit it turned out to be the kill switch. Since discovering it was definitely related to bumps, tho not exclusively or repeatedly, I've gotten under the tank and tail several times shaking, tapping, and tugging and still nothing. This morning I did it again and thought to do the same up front. Checked the wiring, the instrument panel, then tapped the kill switch and it died. I worked the switch back & forth several times now it won't stall when I tap it or rock it. I'll open it up anyway to get a look and clean it up, assuming I can access the contacts. It seemed to do it more first thing in the morning, guessing the temperature changes night & day slowly opened the connection some and the vibrations from riding made the connection better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Finding problems like that are always harder than fixing them. A little contact cleaner may be all that you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 A little dielectric grease is good for connections that can see moisture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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