jrdxx Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 From the beginning this thread seemed to me to belong in a commercial advertisers/for sale thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBird Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 His calculations will make it acclerate 25% under only 1 condition--he has the rear wheel in the air(vacuum actually)--thats it---what he is trying to calculate is a case"for a larger rear sprocket" My buddy is running BST Carbon Fiber wheels on his 03 GSXR1, He got an imperceptible increase in acceleration, but better turn-in---FYI---much of the weight savings is in the "cush drive"--unfortunately ity doesnt translate into a lower moment of inertia at all--mass X R2---lighter tires like Metzlers can ofetn help as much as magnesium rims--- And these are forged Al---I would be really careful--in buying NO-Name wheels, specially with integrated cush drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motobeagle Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hey, you Dude. Let me clarify. Not there's no need to get insulting. What brings peace is knowledge. So let me give you some. Internet personalities. We have all kinds here. :roll: New guy. Were all friends here. Play nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G2 Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Who "was" that guy? :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 The ONLY reason I would ever buy carbon fiber wheeles...is so I can reduce the weight of the bike and EAT MORE....For every 1 HP I gain on the bike....I can eat 7 pound of food. With the addition of the PCII...I got 3 ore HP according to the DYNO....So I went out to eat every night and gained 21 pounds....Bike is equally as fast as before. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_XX Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 His calculations will make it acclerate 25% under only 1 condition--he has the rear wheel in the air(vacuum actually)--thats it--- I can see some traction issues coming up. On the other hand, if you race on the center stand, it's a great mod. Hugo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfybebedosekys Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 "A dork is as a dork does!" (modified from Forest G. Movie). "Don't call me a dork, you dork." (Spunky Italian caddy's younger brother in Caddy Shack I). Okay, Redbird, you caught me about that 8.9s etc. I give, ouch! If you want to know about thrust, think of ti this way. In second gear, the engine has to crank over about 10 times to move the rear wheel around once. At 7k rpm the engine has the strength to lift 80 pounds one foot each time it turns over. When the engine cranks over 10 times it is strong enough to lift 800 lbs one foot. This strength gets reduced by at least three things: (1) the weight of the wheel/tire unit, (2) the circumference of the tire being about 6 feet, and (3) how good the tire grip is. For the sake of agrument -- assume the contact patch is one foot. Each contact patch is getting about 130 lbs of torque pushing on it (minus the grip and rotating mass reductions). THIS JUST SHOWS the pulling or towing rating in 2nd at 7k rpms. For a raw power rating, remember that the engine can rotate the rear wheel about 70 times a second at this state. Horse power is formulated by multiply torque with RPMs and then divide by the conversion factor of 5252. So, 7,000 rpms would give you a multiplier of about 1.2 or 80 lbs of torque at this speed would be about a 100 horse power rating. You can try to imagine this, try to picture the gears like a clockwork and see in your minds eye the engines need to crank ten times to turn the wheel once. That build up of accumulated torque is defined as "thrust" or how much weight can be moved by one turn of the wheel, or how stong is the engine in that gear at that engine speed. My question is how do we figure out how much that strength is reduced by the weight of the rotating wheel??? And would a 25% REDUCTION in that weight of the wheel actually give you a performance boost worth spending $2,000 for (forged wheels, wave rotors, light sprocket). Okay, that's the object of this whole thread. "Don't call me Dork, Dork." (Harrison Ford, American Graffetti). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrated Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Hey Professor, Put some "tobacci" in your pipe, lite 'er up, take a few puffs and chill out. If you are looking for a forum that proves or disproves scientific theory/fact, try the BMW guys, they are mostly know-it-alls. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I think this is really Harry in disguise, anyone??????? What little info I could find on these wheels, they were formerly called Hi Point ( www.engineeredracingproducts.com ) , forged aluminum, much like a number of other maufacturers, using the same 6151 stock. The question begs how they can produce them 5 to 6 hundred dollars cheaper than more well known producers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I think this is really Harry in disguise, anyone??????? The attitude is similar, but ask yourself- could you really picture Harry referencing Socratic method? He'd go into fits just trying to spell it..........sOkratek meThEd......... :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 ROFLMAO!!! :pointup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfybebedosekys Posted November 18, 2003 Author Share Posted November 18, 2003 Dear Chillin' Don't give up you guys. I'm learning more about how to express myself on this forum than ever. I'm also learning to keep at it. The answers almost there. Someone will get at this soon. I hope. One thing, forget the contact patch idea. Think about 10 power strokes per wheel turn for the bike at 7k rpms in 2nd gear. Remember the big WSB debate about twins vs fours??? Twins claim with fewer engine power strokes they can take corners with more control... Somewhere in that debate I'll bet the answer to the effect of lighter rotating mass can be had. Please keep this thread up, what are the most cost effective mods? (I'm not trying to prove anything but how to tell a scam from a solid investment. LOve me for it, yes!!!) :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 The attitude is similar, but ask yourself- could you really picture Harry referencing Socratic method? He'd go into fits just trying to spell it..........sOkratek meThEd......... :grin: Maybe someone showed him how to use a dictionary. I'm not trying to prove anything but how to tell a scam from a solid investment. LOve me for it, yes!!! You know you could have just came out and said this at the beginning, instead of the obtuse rambling that you have embarked on. There are some very knowledgeable people here that could have provided input if that is what you were looking for. By the way do you even own a XX? :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 RICH....... Did you just say..... obtuse.GAY ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 RICH.......Did you just say..... obtuse.GAY ! Oh shit, your on to me, but you promised to keep it a secret. :sex: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 This is my last try at this, here goes- My question is how do we figure out how much that strength is reduced by the weight of the rotating wheel??? Answer- You listen to guys here who've gone with lighter aftermarket wheels and posted their input. If you're looking for formulas to "prove" something, you've come to the wrong place. I could make something up, but there's already enough of that going around. And would a 25% REDUCTION in that weight of the wheel actually give you a performance boost worth spending $2,000 for (forged wheels, wave rotors, light sprocket). No, it would not, especially if you're specifically talking about dragracing. If you're a roadracer/track guy, and you polished you skills with training and practice unitl you're within let's say 5-10% of the local track record, you may see some benifit to going with less unsprung rotating mass. For us mere mortals it'd be more about the bling-bling than anything else. If you've got $2000 burnin' a hole in your pocket for mods, especially dragracing mods, spend it elsewhere. That'd be my advice to you, and it's all I can offer. PS- you might want to double check some of you math, you've got the back tire doing about 250mph in second gear at one point. I'd buy that rim....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Can anyone believe Tim is a VERY SKILLED roofer ? I'd hire him as my MASTER-DEBATER.......Ohhhh that would feel good ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Can anyone believe Tim is a VERY SKILLED roofer Um, no. Just ask Jerry when he's sitting in puddles this coming February. Hire me? You've never given me a dime for all the times I've serviced you. Don't worry, I'm keeping track......... :grin: :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfybebedosekys Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 Okay, lets end this thread. I'm a complete and total newbie to forums of any kind. One thing I would like to do before we end is this. Find out if the membership would like to ask the Carrozzeria wheels importer to offer a blanket discount for members of this board. I ahave been emailing them and they just sent me the facts on the weight of the wheels. 9 pounds for the front, and 14.5 pounds for the rearing including cushdrive and sprocket carrier. The sales guy said to be careflul when comparing weights 'cause most competitors do not include the weight of the sprocket carrier. If we could get a standing 10% from him for a trial 30 days, that would mean only $1240 for a pair of forged ultralight wheels which are SPECIFICALLY configured for the XX and are ready, therefore, to accept all stock parts necessary to complete the job, except for a $29 rear sprocket. Compare this to O.Z. wheels -- one local mechanic told me if you buy them you'll be spending another $500 on parts to match them... Lastly, one board member asked how Carrozzeria can sell wheels at $500 to $600 under their competitors (Dynmag, RC, PM, etc.)... I believe Carrozzeria wheels are being mass produced in Japan for the first time. The cost of production may have dropped dramatically. There could be a big margine for negotiation of a lower price if that is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlheine Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I believe Carrozzeria wheels are being mass produced in Japan for the first time. The cost of production may have dropped dramatically. There could be a big margine for negotiation of a lower price if that is correct. Carrozzeria Japan's website lists the wheels, but does not indicate point of manufacture or model applicability to the XX. Regarding costs of production, not too much has changed here recently, at least not enough to drop retail costs by some 30%. In fact, presuming costs of materials are stable, the retail after exchange fluctuation should have risen in price. (Yen used to be 125 to the dolla, now is about 109. Let's say they cost 100,000 yen (arbitrary) so the converted prices would be $800 (using 125/$) and $917 (using 109/$), a change of almost 15% in the opposite direction... FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfybebedosekys Posted November 19, 2003 Author Share Posted November 19, 2003 It is the American importer who configures the wheels for the CBR1100XX, look at this website: http://www.engineeredracingproducts.com It's in California. They claim to be the exclusive importer. Also, small material cost fluxuation has little to do with the difference between mass production by robots and production that is batch as needed or ordered and labor intensive and therefore expensive. In any case, if you are right then we need to jump on this price while it is this low. Kawasaki is now putting wave rotors on its new 10R, Aprilia is putting O.Z. wheels on its MilleR, every company is looking for an edge, we ought to grab a few sets of these wheels before they get bought up. I'd like to start a poll on who might be interested. Also, I'm referring the American importer to the webmaster of this forum in the hope that we can get a standing discount. If you are interested please vote in the poll. From all I have research and the comments on this thread, it appears that these wheels can be fitted to the XX for about half the price of competitors given that a lot of special parts must be bought for them, while the Carrozzeria wheels use all the XX stock parts but the rear sprocket. If you know otherwise, or you have info that this wheel is inferior in some way please post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 For the cost of these wheels, I could buy a very nice nitrous setup. You want to talk about bang for your buck, wheels are one of the best places to inprove your HANDLING, not acceleration. A $25 16 tooth front sprocket will help your acceleration much more than a set of $1000 wheels. Use your head. :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOXXIC Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Seems like this thread has come around, full circle. I'm all about discounts, and cool new stuff for the 'bird. For me, it's either new Mig pipes or new wheels. (Wish I was like Randy and had both!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I spearheaded a group buy on an item that was even more likely to improve handling for most riders last year- rear shocks from Penske. Got 10% off already good prices, and I think 3 people including myself took part in it when the chips were down. Not a great turnout, and nowhere near the initial interest people showed when the idea first came up. Given that I see near zero SERIOUS interest in the idea on wheels, I'd say you could count on maybe ONE person coming through in the end- YOU!! Best of luck, I'm just relaying my own experience with the same situation. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Um, no. Just ask Jerry when he's sitting in puddles this coming February. That's just wrong ! But it would make for great pictures & indoor pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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