ralfybebedosekys

Haha, that's so funny I forgot to laugh. Come on all of you -- this is the real world not your private little get even party. At first I thought you were all acting like a bunch of schoolyard bullies. Now you'll are like a bunch of pouting children. I have no Idea what you are talking about me dissing anyone in the beginning of the first thread. What I don't get is how you all can ride one of the most complex designed and fastest and mostpowerful bikes on the planet and all be such absolute dunderheads when confronted with a physics problem or math problem, or technical language or detailed language which challenges you'll. If you look at the original thread on the Carrozzeria wheels practially none of the replies were responsive... responsive to the main question. Did you know that mechanically inclined students have more raw intelligence than even straight "A" students. An "A" student is very good at following directions; a mechanically inclined student CAN make up his/her own directions, attack a problem independently. That's raw intelligence. Where is that in this forum??? You gotta know about the group stupidity theory. It says buddying up in a group can make you retarded if you're not careful. 'Cause no one is allowed to say anything new or smarter than the average member. If you do you get axed. There's a saying for this, it is "THE NAIL THAT STICKS UP GETS POUNDED DOWN." Whereas I learned early what a Harvard Prof. wrote in 1970 in "Beyond Freedom & Dignity." It is half the shit people say or do is just a bunch of knee jerk bull that they don't think out anyway. If you want to be free, really free, you gotta force yourself to think. And if a math problem does you in - and it's a simple one, you better get your back up and work it out. 'Cause people get pissed on enough in this world already and stupid people really get doused. And if you're riding a 140 horsepower two wheeled rocket that can take your life -- and you don't like to think, and you feel bullied or have to sulk if someone disagrees with you or challenges your thoughts, well man -- WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING RIDING A 175 MPH BIKE????? So all you would-be superheros out there -- grow the FECK* up, and get real!!! (*that's Irish dialect, it doesn't mean the wildthing, but more like "gosh"). 'Nough said!

All I'm saying is that if the importer emails you and asks to put an announcement in the commercial seller's forum in exchange for a modest discount -- well, would you do that? Right now I am torn between buying the wheels or getting a 2002 stock cpu box -- so I can use a PCIII on a 1999 bike. (I heard that will do it). However for anyone who wants light forged wheels now, getting a discount at the small price of allowing a commercial announcement should be okay. For anyone who wants this type of wheel (and they do make it in black) you'd only have to spend about $1,300 with sprocket and discount versus some 70% to 90% more for a completely workable O.Z. or Dynmag. Right now I am still trying to find out as much as I can about this wheel for anyone who is interested. By the way, does anyone know how much stock wheels weighs??? The Carrozzeria wheels are rear 14.5 lbs. w/cush & carrier, front is 9 lbs. Lastly, I just heard that for GXSRs Galfer wave front rotors are 4.5 lbs while stock are only 5.0 lbs. That's not much difference for a $700 upgrade (Galfer requires the use of its pads or warranty is voided). So, does anyone know what an XX stock front rotor weighs??? If it's as light as a GXSR's rotor -- then... not much advantage. Okay, keep voting!!!

Please vote in this poll. See the following0 website for info, stats and such. http://www.engineeredracingproducts.com/Qs...ore/c000023.htm The big advantage about this wheel is that the American importer configures it specifically for the CBR1100XX which allows you to use all your stock parts, rotors, etc. except the rear sprocket which you can get at discount from them for $29. If you vote yes it means that the webmaster should try to negotiate a discount for members of this website, which means the webmaster will probably have to allow some advertising statement in the appropriate forum section. Okay, please vote. The front wheel weights 9 pounds, the rear 14.5 which includes cushdrive and sprocket carrier. It's made of forged aluminum, is stronger than the stock wheel and comes in black or gold.

It is the American importer who configures the wheels for the CBR1100XX, look at this website: http://www.engineeredracingproducts.com It's in California. They claim to be the exclusive importer. Also, small material cost fluxuation has little to do with the difference between mass production by robots and production that is batch as needed or ordered and labor intensive and therefore expensive. In any case, if you are right then we need to jump on this price while it is this low. Kawasaki is now putting wave rotors on its new 10R, Aprilia is putting O.Z. wheels on its MilleR, every company is looking for an edge, we ought to grab a few sets of these wheels before they get bought up. I'd like to start a poll on who might be interested. Also, I'm referring the American importer to the webmaster of this forum in the hope that we can get a standing discount. If you are interested please vote in the poll. From all I have research and the comments on this thread, it appears that these wheels can be fitted to the XX for about half the price of competitors given that a lot of special parts must be bought for them, while the Carrozzeria wheels use all the XX stock parts but the rear sprocket. If you know otherwise, or you have info that this wheel is inferior in some way please post.

Okay, lets end this thread. I'm a complete and total newbie to forums of any kind. One thing I would like to do before we end is this. Find out if the membership would like to ask the Carrozzeria wheels importer to offer a blanket discount for members of this board. I ahave been emailing them and they just sent me the facts on the weight of the wheels. 9 pounds for the front, and 14.5 pounds for the rearing including cushdrive and sprocket carrier. The sales guy said to be careflul when comparing weights 'cause most competitors do not include the weight of the sprocket carrier. If we could get a standing 10% from him for a trial 30 days, that would mean only $1240 for a pair of forged ultralight wheels which are SPECIFICALLY configured for the XX and are ready, therefore, to accept all stock parts necessary to complete the job, except for a $29 rear sprocket. Compare this to O.Z. wheels -- one local mechanic told me if you buy them you'll be spending another $500 on parts to match them... Lastly, one board member asked how Carrozzeria can sell wheels at $500 to $600 under their competitors (Dynmag, RC, PM, etc.)... I believe Carrozzeria wheels are being mass produced in Japan for the first time. The cost of production may have dropped dramatically. There could be a big margine for negotiation of a lower price if that is correct.

Sorry, I don't know anything bout airshifters. Do a search for Translogic and you'll find about a dozen different models. The no frills one is System 6, about $300. All it does is first sense that the shift lever is moving up and then it kills power to the engine for a fraction of a second so that the drive train unloads so you can finish the upshift without using the clutch or backing off the throttle. However, more expensive systems do much more, one will even shift for you by pressing a button -- Powershifter.

Dear Chillin' Don't give up you guys. I'm learning more about how to express myself on this forum than ever. I'm also learning to keep at it. The answers almost there. Someone will get at this soon. I hope. One thing, forget the contact patch idea. Think about 10 power strokes per wheel turn for the bike at 7k rpms in 2nd gear. Remember the big WSB debate about twins vs fours??? Twins claim with fewer engine power strokes they can take corners with more control... Somewhere in that debate I'll bet the answer to the effect of lighter rotating mass can be had. Please keep this thread up, what are the most cost effective mods? (I'm not trying to prove anything but how to tell a scam from a solid investment. LOve me for it, yes!!!) :wink:

"A dork is as a dork does!" (modified from Forest G. Movie). "Don't call me a dork, you dork." (Spunky Italian caddy's younger brother in Caddy Shack I). Okay, Redbird, you caught me about that 8.9s etc. I give, ouch! If you want to know about thrust, think of ti this way. In second gear, the engine has to crank over about 10 times to move the rear wheel around once. At 7k rpm the engine has the strength to lift 80 pounds one foot each time it turns over. When the engine cranks over 10 times it is strong enough to lift 800 lbs one foot. This strength gets reduced by at least three things: (1) the weight of the wheel/tire unit, (2) the circumference of the tire being about 6 feet, and (3) how good the tire grip is. For the sake of agrument -- assume the contact patch is one foot. Each contact patch is getting about 130 lbs of torque pushing on it (minus the grip and rotating mass reductions). THIS JUST SHOWS the pulling or towing rating in 2nd at 7k rpms. For a raw power rating, remember that the engine can rotate the rear wheel about 70 times a second at this state. Horse power is formulated by multiply torque with RPMs and then divide by the conversion factor of 5252. So, 7,000 rpms would give you a multiplier of about 1.2 or 80 lbs of torque at this speed would be about a 100 horse power rating. You can try to imagine this, try to picture the gears like a clockwork and see in your minds eye the engines need to crank ten times to turn the wheel once. That build up of accumulated torque is defined as "thrust" or how much weight can be moved by one turn of the wheel, or how stong is the engine in that gear at that engine speed. My question is how do we figure out how much that strength is reduced by the weight of the rotating wheel??? And would a 25% REDUCTION in that weight of the wheel actually give you a performance boost worth spending $2,000 for (forged wheels, wave rotors, light sprocket). Okay, that's the object of this whole thread. "Don't call me Dork, Dork." (Harrison Ford, American Graffetti).

Please take note: if anyone is checking out the Translogic Quickshifter you need to know that the BLackbird will only work with the race pattern version. Why? The Blackbird's shiftlever turns the gear shaft counter-clockwise during upshifts. Most other bikes turn the gear shaft clockwise. Consequently, you will need a race pattern version of the barrel trigger. The standard or street version works only when the barrel trigger is compressed during up shifts. If you hook this up to the XX it won't work. When the XX upshifts it would actually be pulling out on, or expanding the length of the barrel trigger. That is, if you mount the barrel trigger in the recommended position, which is forward of the shift lever and under the faring. Okay, hope this helps anyone wanting a quickshift kit whether it's by Dale Walker, Translogic or anyone else. I'm posting this here because a few members expressed interest in a quickshifter in another thread. Peace!

HMM, I SERIOUSLY DON'T MEAN TO BE CONDESCENDING. I'M JUST TRYING TO BE SPECIFIC, THOROUGH AND CLEAR BY USING EXAMPLES AND DETAIL TO ILLUSTRATE IDEAS, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE APPLICABLE. I EXPECT NOTHING LESS THAN FOR THINKING PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF TO CHALLENGE ME, BECAUSE QUESTIONING THINGS IS THE ONLY REALLY WAY TO LEARN. IT'S ACTUALLY CALLED THE SOCRATIC METHOD, WHICH IS HOW THE ANCIENT GREEKS BUILT THEIR FIRST DEMOCRACIES, AND HOW THE WRIGHT BROTHERS INVENTED THE 1:25 RATIO WING AND AN 80% EFFICIENT PROPELLOR. THEY ARGUED THE HELL OUT OF EACH OTHER. SO DON'T BE AFRAID TO DISAGREE, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT, BUT YOU'D BETTER BE GOOD AND HAVE A FOUNDATION FOR WHAT YOU SAY -- 'CAUSE I'M GOING TO CHALLENGER YOU AND KEEP YOU HONEST. JUST DON'T FALL INTO THE TRAP OF GETTING PERSONAL. KEEP YOUR PERSONAL EMOTIONS OUT OF IT. THAT'S NOT TO SAY YOU CAN'T ARGUE AS PASSIONATELY AS YOU WANT TO. IT IS TO SAY THAT YOUR PASSION SHOULD BE DIRECTED CONSTRUCTIVELY TOWARD GETTING AT THE UNDERLYING TRUTH OF THINGS. LIKE WHAT IS A SCAM AND WHAT IS A GOOD MOD. I THINK YOU'VE ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION HERE. CAN YOU GUESS? ISN'T IT OBVIOUS? YES, YOU ARE RIGHT, BUT I AM ALSO. HOW? WELL, I CAN'T TURN LOW 10s WITH A STOCK BIKE. YES, THAT'S IT. I'M PRESUPPOSING AN AVERAGE RIDER WHO WOULD GO OUT ON A WEDNESDAY NIGHT AND PAY $14 TO DRAG IN A "RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG" RACE. WHILE YOU ARE SUPPOSING A PRO RIDER. LIKE YOU, I ALSO DO NOT BELIEVE YOU CAN GET INTO THE 8s WITH JUST A SPROCKET CHANGES, A SHIFTER AND A BLACK EFI BOX. BUT CONSIDER THIS, FOR ME ANYWAY, THE SHIFTER ALONE SHAVED ALMOST 4 SECONDS OFF MY FIRST ATTEMPT AT THE QUARTER MILE, WHICH WAS IN THE 14s. (I've dragged A FEW times and just broke 11 seconds with the shifter in September -- that was without sprocket and box. I'm now hoping to break 10 seconds). AND YES, IF YOU ARE GETTING INTO THE MID 9s OR LOWER - YOU ARE GETTING INTO THE HARD ZONE WHERE EVERY TENTH OF A SECOND COMES WITH GREAT EFFORT. HOWEVER, MY MAIN POINT WAS THAT FOR $500 YOU CAN GET AS MUCH PERFORMANCE INCREASE WITH SPROCKETS, TFI AND SHIFTER AS YOU COULD SPENDING $4,000 ON EXPENSIVE CARBON WHEELS, A FULL RACE EXHAUST AND CUSTOM EFI MAPPING. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? MY POINT IS TO AVOID SPENDING MONEY IN THE WRONG PLACES, AND TO GET PEOPLE TO HELP ME FIND THE BEST PERFORMANCE MODS FOR THE MONEY. YES, IT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE BIKES ALREADY MOD'D HAVE A VERY HARD TIME MAKING MAJOR GAINS... YES??? I THINK YOU'VE GOT ME THERE. I'VE BEEN USING ALL CAPS BECAUSE I'M TYPING THIS ON A NOTEPAD PROGRAM. I TIRED TO TYPE ON THE SITE BUT THE DARN THING IS SO LOW THAT IT DROVE ME CRAZY. I DON'T REGARD ALL CAPS AS SHOUTING. FOR ME IT'S JUST THE EASIEST WAY TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE FROM WHAT YOU WROTE AND WHAT I WROTE THAT YOU QUOTED, AND ALSO IT'S EASIER TO READ ON THE WEBSITE SCREEN (AT LEAST FOR US OVER 40 DUDES) -- I HAVE BEEN PROOF READING ON THE LITTLE WEBSITE WINDOW. MAN, THOSE LETTERS ARE SMALL. ANGRY CAPS. NO ANGRY CAPS HERE. TRY TO THINK OF THESE CAPS AS JUST ALTERNATE LINES IN A DIALOGUE WHICH CAN HELP YOU FIND YOUR PLACE BY BEING OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT. I HAVE HONESTLY NOT INTENDED THESE CAPS TO BE ANYTHING BUT DISTINGUISHABLE, AND EASIER TO TYPE. I thought I did when I filled out the profile, and when I posted a parts for sale ad. I invited anyone in the Bay Area to stop by and check the stuff out. (How is this Italics? And where did you get the idea that caps were "angry." I remember a time in programming when all computers did was print caps, funny, I didn't know those darn machines were so pissed off; probably because all we gave them to do was count holes in cards all day. Man, I'd be pissed too with a knucklehead job like that.

Hey, you Dude. Let me clarify. Not there's no need to get insulting. What brings peace is knowledge. So let me give you some. :cool: ************ YES. I USED RE-GEARING AS AN EXAMPLE OF A CHEAP MOD, NOT AS A CONDESCENDING NOTICE TO THE SUPPOSEDLY IGNORANT. I SUGGEST YOU MIS-READ THAT OR DIDN'T READ CLOSE ENOUGH TO GET MY PURPOSE. SHAME ON YOU. MOREOVER, WHEN YOU ARE WRITING ON A BOARD WITH 896 MEMBERS, YOU OUGHT TO SPELL THINGS OUT SO EVERYONE CAN GET IT, WHICH IS WHAT i WAS DOING, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE RACING INFO WAS AIMED AT THE EARLIER COMMENT WHICH ASKED IF I WAS GOING TO ACTUALLY RACE AN XX. THIS REASONABLY CAUSED ME TO ASSUME THAT MANY OF THIS BOARD'S MEMBERS WERE MORE INTO SPORT TOURING, OR THAT CASUAL DRAG RACING WAS EITHER TOO EXPENSIVE OR NOT AVAILABLE. HENCE, I WENT OUT OF MY WAY TO SHOW THAT THERE ARE CHEAP AND FUN PLACES TO "RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG." FURTHER, there is a new class called Street ET, which allows any bike to run against any other by handicapping them. See the magazine article I sighted above. IN POINT OF FACT, DALE WALKER'S SYSTEM WILL COST YOU $363 IF IT WOULD WORK ON AN XX. BUT WALKER DOESN'T MAKE A BARREL TRIGGER FOR THE XX. SO YOU CAN'T GET A POWERSHIFTER FOR ANY AMOUNT FROM WALKER. WHEREAS, YOU CAN GET BARREL TRIGGER AND BLACKBOX AND SWITCH FOR ONLY $303 THAT WILL FIT AN XX. AGAIN WALKER DOES NOT MAKE A BARREL TRIGGER FOR US. TRANSLOGIC DOES AND IT'S THAT SIMPLE. WELL, THERE IS A PROBLEM HERE. AND I UNDERSTAND YOUR SKEPTICISM. THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU CAN ONLY GET 2 SECONDS OFF OF A COMPLETELY STOCK XX. WHY? IF YOU HAVE ALL THE COMMON MODS LIKE RACE CANS, PC, K&N... YOU'RE ALREADY HITTING THE "EXPONENTIAL" WALL WHERE ONLY SMALL GAINS CAN BE OBTAINED BECAUSE GREATER AND GREATER POWER INCREASES ARE NEEDED. Quote: NO. I'M NOT TOO HIGH IN PRICE BECAUSE WALKER'S $199 BOX IS ONLY HALF A SYSTEM, AND YOU CAN'T GET A WHOLE SYSTEM FROM HIM FOR THE XX. THIS IS AN UNFAIR STATEMENT TO ME IF YOU READ THE WHOLE THREAD. IN FACT, IN MY FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT I DID NOT MENTION THIS BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS OBVIOUS, BUT AFTER IT APPEARED THAT PEOPLE WEREN'T GETTING THE IDEA, I FELT I HAD TO JUSTIFY MY POSITION. SO I WENT TO LENGTHS TO DO SO. NOW Y0U ARE SAYING THAT I AM DAMNED IF I DO AND DAMNED IF I DON'T. GIVEN THE ARGUMENTATIVE NATURE OF TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH DOZENS OF NAY-SAYERS, IT IS ALMOST MANDATORY TO STATE BASIC PRINCIPALS AS BUILDING BLOCKS TO SUPPORT MORE COMPLICATED ARGUMENTS. PLEASE REREAD YOUR QUOTE FROM ME -- IT SAYS "AS YOU MUST KNOW..."THAT IS SUPPOSED TO INDICATE THAT THE INFORMATION THAT FOLLOWS IS REVIEW. REVIEW INFORMATION IS PUT IN ANY TECHNICAL DISCUSSION AS A CONVENIENCE TO THE READER SO HE/SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO LOOK IT UP IN CASE IT SLIPPED THEIR READER'S MIND, AND ALSO FOR THOSE WHO LACK THE AUGUST INTELLECT OF THE LIKES OF A CERTAIN MR. REDBIRD. WELL, HONESTLY I NEVER INTENDED ANYTHING I WROTE IN THIS THREAD TO BE CONDESCENDING, EXCEPT PERHAPS THE LAST SHOT AT YOU R'BIRD. IF YOU READ THE WHOLE THREAD WITH A FORGIVING MIND, YOU MIGHT IMAGINE THAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DEFEND THE IDEA THAT REAL ANALYSIS OF COSTLY MODS IS VERY PROBLEMATIC. JUST WHAT IS WORTH SPENDING A TON OF MONEY ON AND WHAT ISN'T OUGHT TO BE A MATTER THAT WE FIGHT HARD ABOUT, AND PASSIONATELY ABOUT. AND IF YOU ARE A LONG TIME RACER OR A VETERAN WRENCH-JOCKEY WHO KNOWS IT ALL ALREADY... YOU SHOULDN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT NEWBIES SPELLING THINGS OUT SO EVERY LEVEL OF RIDER CAN PARTICIPATE IN THIS PUBLIC FORUM. OTHERWISE YOU ARE RELEGATING THIS FORUM OT ONLY THOSE WITH SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE -- WHICH IS A LIMITATION OF PURPOSE THAT DEFEATS US -- IT SAYS I'M TOO GOOD TO READ THIS REVIEW SHIT SO NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO READ IT. INSTEAD WHY NOT JUST SKIP OVER IT AND TAKE IN THE BASIC POINT, WHICH IS JUST HOW TO EVALUATE MODS WITH STRICT SPECIFICITY.

Thanks for all the replies so far. Why all the calculations? Because it's the only real way we can get to a price performance evaluation. A REAL PRICE-PERFORMANCE EVALUATION. By the way, I found the thrust equation in BIKE Magazine, where the dyno was actually charting thrust in each gear. The graph showed overlays for each gear. The mod they were testing was different end cans. I will look for the article and post the exact situation soon, and some verification of it. BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY: when you are spending thousands on wheel/rotor/tire/sprocket mods -- it seems reasonable to find out exactly what is bull and what is going to help. For example, I've seen many articles which show that the most cost effective performance mod is to simply change the sprockets. Example, a mere $100 can get you a 16 tooth front and a 46 tooth hard anodized rear -- which will give you a real 8% acceleration increase, at the expense of 8% off the top speed. Which means you'll only be able to go 162 mph instead of 175 mph, which seems a reasonable trade off in the real world. Why 16/46? You don't have to mess with the chain. Also, in Northern California at Sears Point Raceway, there is a weekday night race called "Kids vs The Cops" where you pay only $14 to drag the quarter against other bikes. If you check out American Motorcyclist, Issue November 2003, on page 38, there's an article by Bill Wood called "Run what you Brung." IT shows how there are similar drag races in Ohio and all over. And to our XX chagrin, there's tons of Suzuki guys running in the low 9s and even 8.9 with terminal speeds over 150. This type of racing is cheap, fun and legal. Here's another two economic mods that will improve your quarter mile time dramatically. 1) Translogic makes Quickshifters which run about a $1,000. However, you can get the no frills version for a mere $303 (System 6, you have to ask for it as most sites won't list it, they want to sell you the more expensive System). The ability to make full throttle upshifts without the clutch can save you a substantial amount of time in the quarter mile; and serious seconds on lap times on track days. An AFM friend who qualified for and ran in the AMA 600 race at Sears Point, a hardcore privateer -- told me about the Translogic shifter. 2) For a mere $167 you can get Techlusions new TFI box which can go on top of a PCII or PCII or be used by itself. The TFI box has four little clock faces where you set rpms levels to mimic carburetor jet adjustments, i.e., main jet, accelerator pump and the alike. CONSEQUENTLY, FOR ABOUT $570 YOU CAN REDUCE QUARTER MILES TIMES BY ABOUT 2 SECONDS, from say 10.9 stock to 8.9 with above three mods. Compare this to spending $4,000 on Dynmags, PCIII with custom map, and Akropovic full system??? It's about the same performance increase but cost you only one-eighth as much. Get it? We as a group -- have the economic buying power to command real discounts on performance mods through group buys or by allowing discount advertising. So, it is to our advantage to sort out what is a rip off from what are real performance gains, and to evaluate these mods with genuine specificity. And to evaluate whether the performance gains come at a reasonable price for the amount of gain. Hence, using hard physics equations and then testing on the track or strip is the only real way to get at the performance vs. price analysis with any certainty. On the other hand, self testing on backroads or canyon carving can show a lot but usually only after the accumulation of a whole set of mods. To feel whether only one mod made a significant difference is problematic when you are combining mods or when the bike has several mods already. As you must know, making large performance gains gets harder and harder the more advances you make because higher speeds are acquired -- not linearly but exponentially. Example, 40 horse power can get a 500 lb. bike to 100 mph, but it takes 140 hp to get to 180 mph. If gains were linear every 40 hp should get you another 100 mph. IN A LINEAR WORLD, 160 hp would yield 400 mph. Moreover, there's a myth that as your performance goes up each new performance mod gets more expensive. So don't think there's nothing left to do but go turbo or nitrous. If you make hard evaluations you can bust that myth. So let's do so. Given all that, let's figure out if the Carrozzeria wheels are a genuine price break from Japan due to the economics of mass production or are just the latest scam. :roll: Q.E.D.

Well, right, not actually 25% more thrust. To be exact thrust is equal to torque at the crank times the ratios of the primary drive, gear and final drive. :-o For example, if the engine produces 80 lbs/ft of torque at 7,000 rpms you multiply that times primary, gear and final. Okay, lets use the numbers from the owner's manual to figure this out: :shock: (1.57 or primary drive ratio) X (first gear ratio of 2.77) X (final drive sprocket ratio of 45/17 which is 2.65) 80lbs/ft (@7,000 rpms) X 1.57 X 2.77 X 2.65 = 922 lbs of thrust in first gear. :grin: Now the 922 lbs of thrust has to move the weight the rotating mass of the rear wheel first to overcome inertia, and then the thrust acts on the total weight of the rider-vehicle combination. So the thrust is reduced by the weight of the wheel, it's that simple. :wink: There is a formula to calculate acceleration by relating thrust, total mass and rotating mass and the coefficient of grip. But again I can't remember the formula, perhaps someone knows it. I do know that the coefficient of grip for rubber on asphalt (bike on street) is around 0.8 where 1.0 equals total grip, and 0.05 is metal on ice (a bit slippery, eh?). So to be precise in calculating the effect on acceleration of a 25% drop in rear wheel mass, we would have to know the exact equation, which I don't, as I said AND I'M CALLING FOR HELP HERE. :sad: Anyway, here's an approximation of what such an equation would have to contain, that is, the equation would look something like this: 740 lbs (wet XX plus a fully suited up rider) factored by 922 lbs of thrust at 80% grip efficiency DEPLETED by having to turn a 40 lb. rear wheel/tire assembly VERSUS HAVING TO TURN A 30 POUND REAR WHEEL/TIRE. GET IT??? :razz: Now just looking at the numbers without knowing the formula but knowing by experience the effect of 7,000 rpms in first gear -- you can get a feeling for the result. It's a very big wheelie, hehe??? The more you can increase the grip coefficient, like for example using fully heated race tires :shock: , AND the less DEPLETION you have to the thrust by reducing the rotating mass of the rear tire assembly -- the MORE thrust that will actually be tranferred to MOVE the 740 lbs rider/vehicle. So, you are right that lowering the rotating mass by 25% does not increase thrust by that amount. But it does decrease the raw depletion of thrust caused by rotating mass. :sad: How significant must the reduction be to be significant??? What are the real world numbers??? That is what I'd like to find out. And would those numbers justify spending the money on the wheels, rotors, tires... :???: Well, one argument says that if stickyer tires drop many seconds off of lap times, well then, lowering the rear wheel mass must also have a substantial effect. :shock: It would be nice if an expert would come forward and spell out and sort out the real from the unreal. Where should we spend our money on mods? Is a forged aluminum wheel justified for it's performance gains? And if you include a wave rotor, lighter sprocket and tires would the total weight reduction be enough to justify the cost? Or is rotating mass just a myth? :?: Anyway, side hooligan comments don't help. They just confuse the matter. If all the weight reduction mods are a rip off then lets find out instead of making cryptic and bad jokes like you are some kind of Dennis Miller wannabe!!! Harsh, Harsh... :twisted: :evil: :roll: :wink:

Any info members have about the new Carrozzeria forged aluminum wheels would be greatly appreciated. They look like a genuine bargain but there are a lot of unknowns about them because they are so new. The best thing is this: www.engineeredracingproducts.com -- will configure the wheels for the Honda CBR1100XX so you can mount them with stock parts right out of the box. Here are the benefits but are these genuine. These assumptions need to be verified that is why I am posting them here. 1. both front and rear wheels (cushdrive provided) only $1380, could be cheaper with a group buy discount. 2. wheels are shipped ready for mounting with stock rotors, axel, barings and everything except a rear sprocket (which you can buy from them at a discounted $29); 3. The forged wheels come anodized in black or gold, have six spokes and are stronger and 20% to 40% lighter than stockers; *************************** Okay, some research needs to be done on this. Namely, are these Carrozzeria rims the long awaited mass produced Japanese wheels that are 30% to 40% cheaper than DynMag, RC, PM, O.Z. and the alike??? If the research pans out this would make a fabulous group buy proposal. I believe a large group buy could get 15% to 20% off, by large I mean 20 to 30 orders. If this is the long awaited bargain wheel that might be possible. *************************** What jumps out at me about the wheel besides the price is the lack of hidden costs. This is the first of the forged aluminum wheels that has a direct application to the CBR1100XX, which means plainly that you need to buy nothing else except a new sprocket, all the stock fittings will work with it. NO Hidden Costs!!! Can this be true? *************************** What also needs to be researched -- how real is the weight savings??? For example, I heard that the Honda stock rear wheel only weighs 16 to 18 lbs to begin with depending on what exactly you are weighing, namely wheel and cushdrive, barings, etc. Is this true? Does anyone have exact figures for stock wheel weights that actually specify what exact parts are included??? Well, RC Racing states that their wheels weigh about 15lbs., if so, then that brand would not be much of an improvement over stock, no? Consider this: with a 25% lighter rear (say 12lbs or 4 lbs less), a wave rotor (1.5 lbs. less) an AFAM hard anodized sprocket (2 lbs less) and a high end sport tire (2 lbs less) [stock Bridgestone 020 weights 17 lbs. while a Pirelli Diablo weighs 15lbs.] Well, you can reduce the total weight of the rear rotational mass by 9.5 lbs. Now, if the stock weight is about 40 lbs the new weight would be 30.5 pounds or a reduction of almost 25%. Hmm......... Man, that's a lot of reduced weight, and hence increased power because it's rotating. Hmm, the engine now has to rotate 25% less mass, that is worth repeating!!! Okay, if any members would like to work on researching this new mass produced bargain forged wheel -- that would be greatly appreciated. Further, the site listed above also sells Galfer wave rotors at discounted prices. For any Bird pilot who is approaching 40,000 miles on the clock or 30,000 hard ridden miles -- you might have to change out your rotors anyway and then time this with a new tire purchase and then go ahead and get the forged wheels... boom... all of a sudden your bike is producing 25% more power off the line... ("let's go cruising for 'Busa bait"). Eeee... But is this real??? Can someone figure this out.

DynoJet emailed me months ago saying they knew of no way to convert a 1999 Bird for a PCIII. I am hoping that someone at this site might have found a way to do it. Thanks anyway though.