20 Extra Horsepower!!

[beondwacko]

I'd like to know why it is that the various dyno companys don't conform to a unified standard. Hence 1hp = 746 watts of power etc.

AN Eddy dyno reads differently than a dynojet unit. I understand the differences with temp' , humidity, altitude, as well will result in different numbers, but just as a for instance, with the Eddy dyno my bike was run on , there is software that tells the dyno operator what to do and for how long.

The program tells the operator to start at 2K rpm and then run full throttle to 3K rpm. Then 2K rpm to 4K, then 2K to 5K, then 2K to 6K and it keeps on going untill the max RPM test speed has been met. All testing was done with the bike in 5th gear. The operator is prompted to let the bike cool down to about 190 degrees between runs. Now the only thing that I can think of that was lacking was that there was not enough air being forced into the airbox to simulate the ram air effect at high speeds. I realize that the CDI unit is programmed to read the MAP sensor for pressure and change the fuel curve accordingly at high speed, but then again , it's supposedly ( stock ) tuned for the bike by Honda themselves for optimal performance / economy. Why then was my bike running majorly rich at sea level with the stock pipes on it?

I had only gained about 3 HP with the PCIII, but broadened my HP /TQ curve bigtime. It also extended my useable RPM by almost 2K rpm. Funny, but even with the extened RPM's ( because I had a serious drop off at 9.5K rpm before ) I was expecting 2+ mph at the drag strip,,,,,,,,, that I never really saw. I need to stop playing around with the stock head pipe and go with a full system.

[Northman]

Just curious,was there another member here sent a pair of cans to test also? maybe i miss read.

Yes, I have one to try, as well.

While Eric's bike is basically stock, with a stock header & dual cans, mine has a modified engine with a single, full aftermarket system already in place.

We're guessing this will yield different results, but not sure in which direction. May be another 2-3 weeks before mine is tested.

[cbrxxquad]

I wonder what the results would be without the head pipe. I find that a long head pipe increases torque at the expence of hp. I don't run them due to the drag at speed. It would feel stronger at lower speeds like with the missis.

Would be a intresting and easy test for ya Eric, right?

[RodeRash]

I'd like to know why it is that the various dyno companys don't conform to a unified standard. Hence 1hp = 746 watts of power etc.

The dynojet dyno was developed as an inexpensive alternative to other dynamometers. It works by measuring the time it takes to accelerate a heavy drum. A mathmatical algorythm is used to estimate actual torque/hp. This algorythm was developed after much testing in order to give results close to what you would get from dynos that apply resistance.

Regular dynamometers apply resistance to the spinning drum (either electrically in the case of the eddy current, or by using hydraulic pressure) These dynamometers measure the actual torque generated, and from there they can display horsepower by using the standard calculation.

So, which one would you trust to give the most accurate results?

If I wanted something to brag about, I would go with whatever system gives the biggest numbers.

If I wanted to tune my bike for all operating conditions, I would use the eddy current dyno, and use the hp/torque numbers only as reference points.

If you did nothing but drag race, a dynojet dyno may actually work best. Anything that you do to help accelerate the drum faster (such as a lightened crankshaft or lighter flywheel) may not show as increased horsepower on a regular dyno, but can help you at the drag strip.

[EVLXX]

PAUL IS NOT HAPPY!

And he says it's not over....

We are going to continue to work on this to see if we can figure out how to make it work, but I'm too busy to do anything right this moment, as I'm trying to rap everything up to go on Vacation.

So relax and enjoy the weekend... we'll continue on this next week.

Later.

[beondwacko]

This thread has my undivided attention!

Thanks for the dyno explanation too Rode.

[lois]

This thread has my undivided attention!

Thanks for the dyno explanation too Rode.

Thanks as well from me.

Untill I read his explanation on the differences in Dyno's....I just assumed that the Dyno-Jet was the way to go.

I may have to take another look at what method/dyno I am going to use to get my bird tuned.....

[DrDyno]

This thread has my undivided attention!

Thanks for the dyno explanation too Rode.

Thanks as well from me.

Untill I read his explanation on the differences in Dyno's....I just assumed that the Dyno-Jet was the way to go.

I may have to take another look at what method/dyno I am going to use to get my bird tuned.....

Hey Lou,

You could always use one of these...

Works on the same principle as the the DynoJet Dyno only... your vehicle is the drum!

[SR71BLACKBIRDXX]

Damn it...Im trying to find mine from my '99 but cant find it. I gave the hard copy to the guy who bought it..(who is a member here..CHIZUCK ??) 141 hp and 82 ft/lbs STOCK!! I did have that dip @ 5000 rpm however. I should have kept that one. I know I scanned it but cant find it. Ill keep looking...

Edit..not to hijack...but Ive been looking for this for so long!!!

Ill never forget that run. Neck and neck at 1/8 then went by my spinning his back tire all the way through the lights. Still at 152. Should have went 170

[The Krypt Keeper]

PAUL IS NOT HAPPY!

And he says it's not over....

We are going to continue to work on this to see if we can figure out how to make it work, but I'm too busy to do anything right this moment, as I'm trying to rap everything up to go on Vacation.

So relax and enjoy the weekend... we'll continue on this next week.

Later.

Well since the results are in, I will add my comments. I wouldn't be happy either if I made myself look like an ass trying to sell an exhuast system that sounded more like a snail oil tale.. Even if there is a way for him to help you actually get the full 20HP is he going to wait for every single person to get their pipes, go get it dyno'ed and then help them also get the full 20hp? Hell no!

[beondwacko]

Damn it...Im trying to find mine from my '99 but cant find it. I gave the hard copy to the guy who bought it..(who is a member here..CHIZUCK ??) 141 hp and 82 ft/lbs STOCK!! I did have that dip @ 5000 rpm however. I should have kept that one. I know I scanned it but cant find it. Ill keep looking...

Edit..not to hijack...but Ive been looking for this for so long!!!

Ill never forget that run. Neck and neck at 1/8 then went by my spinning his back tire all the way through the lights. Still at 152. Should have went 170

Here's my time slip from this past Wednesday night. THe other bike was a STOCK ZX-10 that was lowered and streched 6".

[DrDyno]

Damn it...Im trying to find mine from my '99 but cant find it. I gave the hard copy to the guy who bought it..(who is a member here..CHIZUCK ??) 141 hp and 82 ft/lbs STOCK!! I did have that dip @ 5000 rpm however. I should have kept that one. I know I scanned it but cant find it. Ill keep looking...

Edit..not to hijack...but Ive been looking for this for so long!!!

Ill never forget that run. Neck and neck at 1/8 then went by my spinning his back tire all the way through the lights. Still at 152. Should have went 170

Here's my time slip from this past Wednesday night. THe other bike was a STOCK ZX-10 that was lowered and streched 6".

Damn... Excellent times! :icon_thumbsup: Time slips are a LOT more relevant than Dyno charts!

How is your bike set up?

[SR71BLACKBIRDXX]

How is your bike set up?

Mine was all stock. Mirrors, stock height, stock exhaust, stock everything. Im about 185. Im sure I could have ran 10.4's that day if I could have gotten a good launch. Its tough with that hydraulic clutch

[DrDyno]

How is your bike set up?

Mine was all stock. Mirrors, stock height, stock exhaust, stock everything. Im about 185. Im sure I could have ran 10.4's that day if I could have gotten a good launch. Its tough with that hydraulic clutch

:icon_hail:

:icon_hail:

:icon_hail: :icon_hail:

:icon_hail: :icon_hail:

[beondwacko]

My set up is as follows.

I weigh in at 213lbs dress in "street" clothes, so maybe 230lbs in leathers w/helmet.

Two Bro's Ti C5 slip on's.

PCIII mapped

K&N air filter

-1 on front sprocket

1.5" drop out back and 1.1" in front.

Front end strapped.

BTW, that 10.375 run with 38 psi of pressure in the rear tire and no burnout on a Pilot Road.

Pretty neat stuff.

[DrDyno]

My set up is as follows.

I weigh in at 213lbs dress in "street" clothes, so maybe 230lbs in leathers w/helmet.

Two Bro's Ti C5 slip on's.

PCIII mapped

K&N air filter

-1 on front sprocket

1.5" drop out back and 1.1" in front.

Front end strapped.

BTW, that 10.375 run with 38 psi of pressure in the rear tire and no burnout on a Pilot Road.

Pretty neat stuff.

:icon_hail: :icon_hail: :icon_hail:

:icon_hail: :icon_hail:

:icon_hail: :icon_hail:

:icon_hail:

:icon_hail:

[Ronnie]

So I take it the pipe didn't produce anywhere the numbers Paul said?

[JamesXX]

Beondwacko -

0.039 R/T: :icon_clap: :icon_clap: :icon_clap:

You and the ZX-10 rider were both pretty damn quick off the line.

I've been following this thread closely (who on the board hasn't?), and if only these pipes had been introduced as a new slip-on alternative with cool looks and a better-than-average gain (+/-5 hp with a smoother curve), we'd all be pretty happy. Instead, they were simply oversold.

Word to Paul: You're obviously an stand-up kind of guy and you do excellent work. As a marketing strategy, you might want to consider lowering expectations and then surpassing them instead. Will sell more pipes.

[Fast Eddy]

if only these pipes had been introduced as a new slip-on alternative with cool looks and a better-than-average gain (+/-5 hp with a smoother curve), we'd all be pretty happy. Instead, they were simply oversold.

Word to Paul: You're obviously an stand-up kind of guy and you do excellent work. As a marketing strategy, you might want to consider lowering expectations and then surpassing them instead. Will sell more pipes.

But I don't think many people will line up to buy $1200.00 slip ons for a gain of 3-5hp.

I was able to get a full 2bro system, jetting and dyno tune for under a $1000.00 and gained 7hp.

[beondwacko]

if only these pipes had been introduced as a new slip-on alternative with cool looks and a better-than-average gain (+/-5 hp with a smoother curve), we'd all be pretty happy. Instead, they were simply oversold.

Word to Paul: You're obviously an stand-up kind of guy and you do excellent work. As a marketing strategy, you might want to consider lowering expectations and then surpassing them instead. Will sell more pipes.

But I don't think many people will line up to buy $1200.00 slip ons for a gain of 3-5hp.

I was able to get a full 2bro system, jetting and dyno tune for under a $1000.00 and gained 7hp.

For $1K , I'd better gain 50+hp at a push of a button !

[Keith]

I find it quite illuminating that Bognor Paul has not bothered to respond to the posts regarding

the complete lack of correlation between his claims and what actually transpired on the dyno

when EVLXX took his bike to have it tested.... There's certainly no way I'd spend $1200 on a

set of cans that produce a mere 5hp gain, if that.

[EVLXX]

I find it quite illuminating that Bognor Paul has not bothered to respond to the posts regarding

the complete lack of correlation between his claims and what actually transpired on the dyno

when EVLXX took his bike to have it tested.... There's certainly no way I'd spend $1200 on a

set of cans that produce a mere 5hp gain, if that.

Well that's because of a number of things... one you guys are tough, and to it's not over yet, paul is still e-mailling me and we are working or trying to figure out why I didn't get the results he was expecting.

Part of it might be my fault... not his ! My Long ass Mid-pipes are cooling the exhaust gasses down rappidly, and therefor affecting the way the Cans were designed to work.

So be patient....

I'll post more when we know more.

Edited to add:

Fine tuning any product takes time, and as always, not everything works the same in every application...

I'll get it sorted out... at least to the best of my abilities and understanding, and in conjunction with Paul.

It'll probably take another week or 2... maybe 3. progress is slow due to all the other projects I have burn. But I'l get there.

[davesXX01]

Eric, so he agrees to what we were talking about at OzarXX? Heat loss and the possibilty of octane/methanol.

Wrap them suckers man! He already stated earlyier that the cans need to be HOT to work properly.

Then go to your local paint store and get some Toluene:

http://www.disgruntledpunk.com/octane.htm

I used that stuff in my turbo car with awsome results!

Dave

[tomek]

Toluol has it`s place in Turbo motors as R+M/2 is about 115-118 :icon_shocked: :icon_shocked: ,I`m not sure this brew would work in high revving NA motor where burn rate is more important.

+1 on heat wrap just to see if things improve.

[Skull]

Bottom line may be: Dyno charts camparing different runs on differnt dynos with different bikes may have very little value as compared to multiple dyno runs on the same dyno comparing engine modifications to the same bike.

Not "may be". Is. This cannot be stated enough. Dyno measurements are really only meaningful if it's the same dyno with the same calibration and the same weather conditions (preferably on the same day). You can only mathematically correct for so much. On their own, the numbers are great for bench-racing, but not much else -- you really are comparing apples and oranges.