N1K Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Took my bike up for new tires today... AV45/46 My bike was dead steady. Let of the bars at any speed, and it was silky smooth. Left the dealership with the Avons... At lower speeds, as I'd let of the gas, the head would start to shake.. very soft, then build to a significant shake... Went back... they double checked the balance.. but told me that "my head bearings were probably worn in to my 'old' tires"????? WTF??? Anyway... They double checked the balance. In fact even said they did it on their usual balancer, and then went over to their 'bubble' balancer which both showed perfect balance... Then they decided to check the stearing bearings... WHen they torqued them to spec they found a 'notch' in teh bearing????? with the wheel off, front tire in the air, as you turn the wheel from side to side, you can feel a tiny spot of resistance... The bike is FIVE days out of warranty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The guy said he'd call Honda and see if he could get them to cover it... Anyone have this issue? 7000 miles on the bike... Regardless.. I'm still shaking my head that the dealer told me "the bearings were 'worn in' to my old tires? Please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardCranium Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Dude...didn't you know? I ALWAYS have my head bearings replaced when I get new tires. :shock: Man...that reminds me...its almost time for new brake pads and I havent even ordered the rotors yet...gotta replace em every time I get new pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 So MY question is.............did that fix it? lol... NO!!! It is not as bad as I had first thought... It only happens at lower speeds... 65---70 its still smooth as hell. Hopefully after the tires get scuffed in a bit, it will go away... It seems that it might be slightly intermittent (as you said on the phone joe) P.S. Thanks for your help today Joe... I knew he was full of shit, but wasn't sure enough of myself to make a beef of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 This is the third weakness for xx's. ball type head bearings. Why with a bike as big and heavy as this it doesn't come with tapered roller bearings factory. I'd be willing to bet if all of you propped your bike's front end and slowly turned your bars you'd feel a notch also. Especially if Wheelies are part of your repotoire. Dennis kirk has them for $50. I have a notch straight ahead also, been thinking of putting tapered's in this winter. This IS THE CURE for deceleration wobbles. (head shake) If you get it done under warrantee have them put in tapered rollers shoudn't matter for labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALCXX Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Anyone have the tapered roller bearing numbers?? Cal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XX Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 i had the same problem when i finally changed out my front bt57 oem at about 11k. i had already changed out the rear to a bt020 at about 8500. the 020 the local bike parts shop (not a dealer) had put on gave me terrible shake and wobble up front in the same conditions. As well, between 10-40 on rain groved concrete, well, put it this way, i couldn't ride the bike one handed it shook so much. they replaced the front with a 010 and 95% of it went away. i bet my headset bearings do need replacement and would be very interested in suggestions for part number, makes, models for these tapered bearings - will they last longer? will they do better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 So, Nik, no shake with old tires, shake with Avon tires. I think I would be looking at the tires, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XX Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 here is what i surmised from my limited experience. problem on front end = problem with certain tires, like the bt020, the bt57 and maybe the av45? (but not so bad the bt010) fix problem on front end, any tires will be okay. i hope. because i'm hoping my next set of tires will be the avons but i'll shit if the front end gives me shake, after changing out my headset bearings (already done stiffer springs and soon an oil change and maybe a revalve too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willxx23 Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Just replaced my Dunlop 205s for the bt010/bt020 combo this last weekend , the front Dunlop was cupped pretty good and was shaking at certain speeds, since the change to the Bridgstones no wobble at all w/31,000 mi and counting. That would be strange for the head bearings to "act up" after the change :?: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdxx Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 My experience is that it's not uncommon for steering head bearings to have a "set" in the races with the wheel pointing straight ahead, but it's no cause for alarm unless the set is substanial enough to cause binding or clicking noises. In that case, a bearing and race R&R might be in order. Loose steering head bearing adjustment could play a more prominent role in headshake than the set alone. A tire/rim assembly may be statically and dynamically balanced, but still ride like shit. Put the bike on the centerstand, and spin the wheel slowly, looking for signs of vertical out of round, or side to side irregularities. A well manufactured tire should track true along the circumference and the sidewalls. Significant irregularities could be aggravating the shake you're experiencing. Thongboy went to the AV45/46 recently, and if I remember correctly, he had an issue with out of round on the rear tire, and I think Avon replaced it. Avon appears to take quality control concerns seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G2 Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 It probably is the new tire. Can you live with it for several thousand miles??? I wouldn't. Unfortunately you'll be out time and money even if your tire is replaced. I was disgusted at first in having to replace an out of round tire but that memory is fading as these tires are a huge improvement over the D220's and seem to be wearing well. Do not let those fools work on your bike. If at all possible find another shop regardless of brand (Harley? :-o ) that gives you good info and doesn't let the high school kid on summer break replace your head bearings! Contact Avon. Carlos has their # G2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 I wouldn't go to the HD shop ! They don't have metric tools :twisted: :wink: ...I don't know, maybe they do now....Isn't the V-Rod a metric cruiser ? :wink: But seriously, you may have a bad tire. Some tires don't wear the same on all the bikes, but if this tire wasn't good for the XX, other guys on this forum would complain about this already, since the new Avon combo seems to be popular here. From my experience, the stock tire, although not as good as the next one (in many opinions !), usually has the best "anti-headshake" characteristics. When you think about it, the OEM companies spend tone of time and reserch to find the best suiting tire for the particular bike. The BT-57 i.e, on the XX is not the same on the ZX11 and not the same like the one from your tire supplier (unless it specifies "for the XX"). I don't remember the headshake with the BT-57's. Had little with the Pirelli's, less with the Macadam 100's, now little more with the BT 010... It only occurs on decelleration, 45 - 35 MPH, when I take my hands of the bars. I can cruise 75MPH and take my hands off, no problem. In my case, my GIVI luggage has something to do with the headshake as well..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 27, 2003 Author Share Posted July 27, 2003 It only occurs on decelleration, 45 - 35 MPH, when I take my hands of the bars. I can cruise 75MPH and take my hands off, no problem. My headshake is similar... 75 let go. NO shake... Around 55 down to 40... It shakes... Under 40 no shake... Over 55 no shake... I had someone hold the back of the bike up, and I spun the front tire... You can hear the pad rub continuously, which I think is normal... But there is ONE point where the tire does not move QUITE as freely as the rest of the turn... It is not much of a difference, but it is noticeable... I'm wondering if that could be the cause of the headshake? Although, the headshake is pretty minor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Nik, The easy answer to determine if it's the tire or the bike, is to head to Madison and we'll swap my front for yours. We should be able to determine where the problem is pretty quick after that, I'd think. Whatcha doing next weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrated Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Nik, the shake could be the reuslt of your Silver bike being in the presence of TWO Black XX's today. Maybe now that you are back home in Brew city, you'll be OK. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDAZ XX Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I would guess tires only because mine had the exact same symptoms and a new tire fixed the problem. :grin: Shakes terribly slowing down at around 40-30+ or- mph, so bad once, I almost got pitched off coming up to a stop light when I pulled my hands off the bars to relax and damnear went into a full lock to lock tankslapper. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Strangely enough, I haven't managed to notch my bearings yet with 52k miles and lots of wheelies. I have had the headshake at 45 issue on and off with various tire combos. Right now with a worn front and new rear it's gone, but had it when both were worn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkbrdrydr Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I've been through a set of BT57s and a set of ME Z4s, have almost 17,000 miles and... With a Throttlemeister keeping the throttle open, I can ride at ANY speed with my hands off the grips without any hint of headshake. I can also just close the throttle and let the bike deaccelerate from any speed and there's still absolutely no shake. I would vote for a tire being out of round as the probably cause of the shake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 28, 2003 Author Share Posted July 28, 2003 I would vote for a tire being out of round as the probably cause of the shake If the tire was out of round, wouldn't this 'show up' on a balancer??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwxx Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 An out of round tire would probably be out of balance and could be balanced with weights. But the tire is still out of round and would probably cause shake. I had some of the 40 mph front end shake on a worn out pilot sport. Tire replacement solved the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 If the tire was out of round, wouldn't this 'show up' on a balancer??? If they looked at it while on the spin balancer, yes. It would be very visible while spinning the tire. However, it would show up on the bike as a bounce around 85 and 170, probably not at low speeds. Really, this shit just happens at that speed with certain tire combos, at a certain chain adjuster point, with certain weight loads, at a certain fork height, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibber Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 it wouldn't show up on the balancer if, worse case scenerio, it has two bulges in the rubber mold, exact same weight, at perfect 90's from each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 If you are LOOKING you will see it. That's how I found mine a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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