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ptxyz

broke my 1st chain today!

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On 10/2/2019 at 1:28 PM, ptxyz said:

ha ha!  ok, now i get it!  i could be accused of being an amateur reader and slow on the uptake too, just ask my wife!

 

jt has requested their chain back and tells me they want their lab to test it.  stay tuned...

Jt wants the chain back to relieve you of any evidence of defective product, and eliminate any actual liability on their part.

 

Once they get it, it ceases to exist. They aint testing shit.

Edited by XXBirdSlapper
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Anything strange could have happened to cause its failure. Seen lots of brand new items break or fail soon after put into service or arrive defective. 

 

Just installed new chain and sprockets on my track bike today, amazing how strong they are from the demands we put on them. As shown with the wear on my vortex rear sprocket. Aluminum and done after two track days as expected. Got it for 1/2 price so no big loss. Replaced with a steel this time just to avoid replacing again so quickly. I am not worthy enough to notice the difference of rotational mass. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, The Krypt Keeper said:

Anything strange could have happened to cause its failure. Seen lots of brand new items break or fail soon after put into service or arrive defective. 

 

Just installed new chain and sprockets on my track bike today, amazing how strong they are from the demands we put on them. As shown with the wear on my vortex rear sprocket. Aluminum and done after two track days as expected. Got it for 1/2 price so no big loss. Replaced with a steel this time just to avoid replacing again so quickly. I am not worthy enough to notice the difference of rotational mass. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Umm you have a problem if you are saying a brand new sprocket only lasted 2 track days.

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Yep, chain was about due for replacement and rear sprocket was vortex aluminum. I had ordered a new chain to replace it but when I pulled the rear wheel off I did a double take at the excessive amount of wear to the sprocket. 

 

Just rolled wheel to side, cut off old chain and ordered new sprockets. Oh well, guess the chain was stretched more than I thought.. 

 

Got a few more items to go over on my track bike, new tires and stator on my sons track bike and oil changes to be ready for Racerxx 2020.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/4/2019 at 4:14 PM, RXX said:

 

That looks like a nice place to work.

thanks!  while downtown san jose has it's charms, like plenty of bars, restaurants and other entertainment venues, it's being overrun by the mentally ill and homeless.

 

there are also scenes like this on my way to work...  was she trying to tell me i have a hot dog hanging out of my mouth?!

 

no progress on the blackbird last weekend.  had to chase down a parasitic electrical draw (& replace a 6 year old battery) on our '98 e430.  turned out to be another hvac blower motor resistor gone bad...

 

no word from jt regarding their inspection of the chain but, it only arrived to their lab friday...

vlcsnap-2019-10-16-07h18m29s039.png

Edited by ptxyz

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finally put the bird back together and went for a test ride yesterday.  refitting the sprocket cover was fun, seems the bolt holes are not quite in the same place.  i also needed to shave that thick metal "gasket" that's between the cover & case, it was touching the clutch pushrod.  clutch action is, thankfully, smooth.

 

in one of my better recent moments of "i can't believe i fucking just did that...", i took out too many links to use my fancy 46 tooth supersprox rear...  thankfully, the used ebay hub i bought (discovered the old chain damaged a couple of the sprocket mounting nuts / studs on it's way out) had a nice sunstar 45 tooth sprocket.  i'll be back to stock gearing (17/45) for this chain...

 

still no word from jt on the failed chain.  pressure will begin to be applied.

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small update, jt's asking for a dollar amount without saying they'll pay yet.

 

i'm figuring a full refund of the defective chain sprocket set to start ($179).  i had to order a rear hub, ebay used ($29).  i spent about 4 hours total repairing the case with epoxy (seems to be holding) and replacing the chain and sprockets.  my time's worth something and even @ say $50/hr, way cheaper than a shop.

 

do you think $400-500's reasonable?

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I would break it down for them with receipts and add the labor and I wouldn't round the price off.    

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I would present it just like you did here.

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Or go get an estimate from a shop which might be a weld repair or engine case replacement.

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I would be very surprised, if they offered anything more than to replace the chain and sprockets.  Don't hurt to try, I guess.

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I might be more inclined to tell them about the chain and sprocket, and all the time, as well as potential future problems, and ask how they suggest they make up for it.  Or possibly suggest that they just send me extra parts (more chains and sprockets) which costs them much less than cash.  And in most companies, and employee can just send you parts on their own accord (or at least, I've had that happen a few times).

 

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2 hours ago, jon haney said:

I would be very surprised, if they offered anything more than to replace the chain and sprockets.  Don't hurt to try, I guess.

"We evaluated the improperly installed chain you sent us. It was readily apparent that the correct tools were not used on this chain, damaging it and rendering it unsafe. For legal reasons we are unable to return it to you. We are, however, sending you a decal and hat. Thanks for supporting our products!"

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19 hours ago, XXBirdSlapper said:

"We evaluated the improperly installed chain you sent us. It was readily apparent that the correct tools were not used on this chain, damaging it and rendering it unsafe. For legal reasons we are unable to return it to you. We are, however, sending you a decal and hat. Thanks for supporting our products!"

Sarcasm aside, even this pessimist believes they will at least replace the chain, because of the way it failed.  Would be very hard, if not impossible, to blame installation.

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On 10/30/2019 at 1:53 PM, SwampNut said:

I might be more inclined to tell them about the chain and sprocket, and all the time, as well as potential future problems, and ask how they suggest they make up for it.  Or possibly suggest that they just send me extra parts (more chains and sprockets) which costs them much less than cash.  And in most companies, and employee can just send you parts on their own accord (or at least, I've had that happen a few times).

 

good suggestion, companies are loathe to dispense cash...

 

while i'll never put another of their chains on my bird, i might take one or two for my klr if i think that's all i can get from them...

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If their chain isn't good enough for the Bird then it's probably also not good enough for the KLR.  You're probably thinking so since the KLR has less power, but it also has a smaller chain so proportionally it might be the about same stress level.  While I understand loosing faith in JT, I doubt it's merited.  If they only offer you a new chain, get it in gold and I'll gladly take it.

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Ptxyz, can I sneak the clutch slave and sprocket cover off without removing the fairing?  I has been a while since I had it apart and don't remember if I took the plastic off.  I want to take a peek at the front sprocket.

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You didn't ask me, but pretty sure it's a yes.  Mine is larger than stock and it was no problem at all, had it on & off several times.

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sorry i didn't read this sooner.

 

you can, by removing  the 3 or so bolts and 1 plastic push pin closest, leaving the rest.

 

it's a bit of a stretch (of that lower) but, it's a good idea to remove and clean the clutch push-rod too.

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I got it out far enough to check out the teeth on the sprocket to make sure that everything is OK.  I did end up loosening up the fairing a little to get things lined up right to reinstall the cover.

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finally have resolution to this.  not exactly what i'd asked for but, i'm satisfied, given the damage was minimal.

 

jt rep. i'd been in email communication with asked that i call this morning.  from the gist of it, they're unable to determine the exact cause of failure.  they found no problems with the rest of the chain and suspect some problem with the single pin that sheared.

 

jt will pay me $250 and a future chain / sprocket set.  i'll use that set on my klr650 or new to me xt225.   no more less that top tier drive products for the blackbird.

 

i've never been too picky about my chains.  cheapest i've used was a $50 volar that lasted all of 3-4k miles before stretching to the limit of adjustment.  never expected this type of failure.  i'm now more careful of situations where the rear might regain traction abruptly (like slippery manhole covers and dry pavement).  not sure if i could've reacted quickly enough to the sudden loss of drive and increase in revs that accompanied this failure and prevented the damage to the lower engine case but, it's something i'll always think about going forward.

 

hope this helps someone else avoid this whole hairball...

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ptxyz said:

i'm now more careful of situations where the rear might regain traction abruptly (like slippery manhole covers and dry pavement). 

Yes it put more stress on the driveline but a quality chain should be able to take it IOM.  I wouldn't worry about that part.

Also, I'm glad that JT did right by you for the most part.

Edited by blackhawkxx

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12 hours ago, blackhawkxx said:

Yes it put more stress on the driveline but a quality chain should be able to take it IOM.  I wouldn't worry about that part.

Also, I'm glad that JT did right by you for the most part.

Did right? They didn't do shit.....

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