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DerekJaworski

Dash cross fittment and Carb Diaphrams

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Hey guys,

First time post of hopefully long term membership.

 

I just bought my first bird the other day, and I have a LOT to do to it.

 

First question is about the dash. The bike I bought doesn't have a dash, but brackets and wiring are all there. My bike is a 98, but I found a dash for a 99 online (non digital). I know a few things changed between the two years, but I was wondering if it will be a direct fit with my 98 since they seem to be pretty hard to find.

 

 

My second question is about where to find air cut off valve diaphragms for the carbs. Two of them are very brittle and falling apart.

 

I've done a bit of research on both of those issues. I've scowered this site and across the web with no luck.

 

Hope you guys can help, and hope the answers can help others in the furure!

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I can't say definitively, but I'd expect it to be compatible.  Honda didn't change much between model years that I know of.  Someone else probably has done just what you're considering, though.

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I don't know the correct answer to your question but I do know, as you do, that there is a difference between the 98 analog and the 99 digital dash. There are many here that have been involved in this exact scenario and can give you accurate info.

 

oops as pointed out, digital dash started in the 2001 model year here in the States. I was confusing the digital change with the carb to FI change. 

I do know that all analog dashes are interchangeable with each other on the Bird

as are all digital dashes on the Bird.

 

 

Edited by John01XX
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The '99 XX is also analog.

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1 hour ago, John01XX said:

oops as pointed out, digital dash started in the 2001 model year here in the States. I was confusing the digital change with the carb to FI change. 

I do know that all analog dashes are interchangeable with each other on the Bird

as are all digital dashes on the Bird.

 

 

That is the answer I was looking for. Mine is carbed, but the dash I want is off of an efi bike. I should have specified that. Wasn't sure if there was any difference for that reason.

 

I do know that they changed the kick stand light. but that's an easy fix. (not that I need a kick stand light)

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13 minutes ago, DerekJaworski said:

That is the answer I was looking for. Mine is carbed, but the dash I want is off of an efi bike. I should have specified that. Wasn't sure if there was any difference for that reason.

 

I do know that they changed the kick stand light. but that's an easy fix. (not that I need a kick stand light)

 

No side stand light at all on the Bird so you are good to go with a 99 analog dash on your 98 carbed Bird.

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You have a California bike?  I thought the air cutoff valves were only on the left coast bikes.

 

 

The dashes are identical between the 97, 98, 99, and 00.....EXCEPT the cover plate has an amber filter marked S on the early models, and the later models have a red filter marked FI. 

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18 hours ago, John01XX said:

 

No side stand light at all on the Bird so you are good to go with a 99 analog dash on your 98 carbed Bird.

I seem to recall my 97 having one and it was in the place my FI light is on my '01.  Or is my memory even shittier than I admit to?

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16 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said:

You have a California bike?  I thought the air cutoff valves were only on the left coast bikes.

 

 

The dashes are identical between the 97, 98, 99, and 00.....EXCEPT the cover plate has an amber filter marked S on the early models, and the later models have a red filter marked FI. 

You covered my curiosity on the side stand.  What's the air cutoff valves and what do they do?

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20 hours ago, Aunt Sylvia said:

I can't say definitively, but I'd expect it to be compatible.  Honda didn't change much between model years that I know of.  Someone else probably has done just what you're considering, though.

Yea, not much changed between '98 and '99, it's even like it's the dividing line that we all use when referring to early/late model.  Just a few little changes like the entire fuel system, exhaust system, cooling system, braking system, front wheel and axle, side stand light, tail light, brake and clutch levers, battery and charging system, ignition switch, frame, etc.  I can't see why the fuck the new guy would even ponder that the dash boards between the two model years with the most changes ever made to the bird might present a compatibility issue, he must just be dumb I guess.

 

Derek: generally speaking whatever Auntie says think the opposite.  In all fairness whenever he asks for advice and we give it to him he does the opposite.

In this case he was actually correct despite his own words, they will interchange.  I assume you side stand will illuminate the "FI" light.

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20 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said:

You have a California bike?  I thought the air cutoff valves were only on the left coast bikes.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure on exactly where the bike came from, but being that it's a carbed bike, they should be on all of them.

 

3 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

You covered my curiosity on the side stand.  What's the air cutoff valves and what do they do?

 

The air cut off valves basically do what they say. they cut off airflow when less fuel is used. As you open up the throttle, they open allowing it to breathe easier and get the proper air to fuel ratio. 

 

The are whats behind the black caps on the front side of the carbs that opens the black plates inside the top of the carb.

 

 

 

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I still have no idea where I can find the cut-off valves though. Any help there would be greatly appreciated.

Surely somebody out there makes replacements. 

 

..and unfortunately, they don't come with the rebuild kits..

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Are you talking about the vacuum slides?

There is a diaphram under the top cover of the carb with a spring between it and the top.
When it moves upward, it allows more air to move through the throat of the carb.

Part #20 in the diagram posted below
 

 

Edited by HANKSXXX

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Have you tired Ron Ayers?

 

They have most parts,  not cheap, but they might have what you need.

Mines a FI, so Im not sure what part you are looking for.

Carb diagram

Edited by redxxrdr
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6 hours ago, redxxrdr said:

 not cheap

$114 for all four from the link.  If you are going to buy OEM, be sure to check different places because prices do vary.

Edited by blackhawkxx
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9 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

In this case he was actually correct despite his own words, they will interchange.  I assume you side stand will illuminate the "FI" light.

 

Can the "filter" be changed out.  I wonder if they are swapable from the cluster housing or somehow permanently glued in.

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21 hours ago, DerekJaworski said:

I still have no idea where I can find the cut-off valves though. Any help there would be greatly appreciated.

Surely somebody out there makes replacements. 

 

..and unfortunately, they don't come with the rebuild kits..

Ahhhh, I think you wanna search for vacuum diaphragms or maybe slide diaphragms, not air cut-offs.  Maybe cut-off is what Honda calls them but I've always heard vacuum diaphragm.  They don't really cut the air off, they lift the slide according to airflow which also raises the needle allowing more fuel flow to match the airflow.  In older carbs your throttle hand lifted the slide/needle assembly directly.  With these your hand opens the butterfly and the resulting vacuum change/airflow lifts the slide/needle assembly.  It's known as a constant velocity (CV) carburetor and they're more efficient than the older mechanical slide style.

Edited by superhawk996
spelling

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23 hours ago, DerekJaworski said:

 

The air cut off valves basically do what they say. they cut off airflow when less fuel is used. As you open up the throttle, they open allowing it to breathe easier and get the proper air to fuel ratio. 

 

The are whats behind the black caps on the front side of the carbs that opens the black plates inside the top of the carb.

 

 

 

 

 

What's behind the black caps are the slide diaphragms or vacuum piston, 16111-MAT-000. 

 

The air cut-off valve is 16510-MAL-600 and is something completely different.

 

I will look for these for you.

 

 

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4 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Ahhhh, I think you wanna search for vacuum diaphragms or maybe slide diaphragms, not air cut-offs.  

 

I agree that that isn't what they are called, but I've been looking, and that's the most common phrase for them on bikes from what I've seen. Notice that 

 

 

I'll do some more research to see if I can find them. I was just hoping these were more common than they apparently are.

 

I might just have to pay the $114 blackhawkxx mentioned. Either way, I have to have them.  I might try some other experiments, like removing them completely. But I have a feeling I might not get away with that since the needle is a part of it.

 

I'll log what I do, and post about it in the future.

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2 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said:

 

 

What's behind the black caps are the slide diaphragms or vacuum piston, 16111-MAT-000.

 

Thanks for the item numbers. That might help me out a bit.

 

2 hours ago, rockmeupto125 said:

 

I will look for these for you.

 

 

 Thanks, let me know what you come up with. If I find anything, I'll let you know for future reference. 

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Just an update guys.

 

The 99 dash fits my 98 bird. Everything works properly. Even the FI light works properly with my stand.

So newer dashes are plug and play with the older bikes.

 

I couldn't find any slide diaphragms at a reasonable price anywhere. I did however buy a whole set of carbs from rockmeupto125.

Thanks a bunch guys. I'm sure I'll  be on here a lot more from now on.

 

I'll have pics, and walk-throughs on this build if anyone is interested.

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Good to know.  Maybe this thread should be placed somewhere that we can find it the next time someone asks and we forget because we are old.

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@___dude I was going to suggest @rockmeupto125 slide diaphragms.

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