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High beam / handlebar switch troubles


Tom
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Did a big service on my bike this year, turned into a shitshow. Two shops, one for "mechanic" side of things, one for fairings, fixed the cracks on the fairings that appeared over the years, Nitron shock, bearings, front shock rebuild, etc. I don't know which garage messed it up, but the electrics on the bike are not as they were. The bike runs, but given this annoying glitch I don't want to ride it before I sort it out. Also, generally speaking, it's really hard to find a proper service nowadays, and it's not even that I was skimping on the money. People are just greedy lazy lames but that's another story.

 

So this is the problem. 

 

When I flip the throttle side slider switch to left, low beam and position turn on. As they should.

But - in this case, passing button doesn't flash the high beam LED, but the relay clicks. 

Flipping the high beam button doesn't work but in this case, relay doesn't even click. 

 

Putting the throttle side light switch in the middle position, position bulb is on, low beam off - as it should.

High beam switch and passing button still dead.

 

Finally, throttle side light switch to the right, position and low beam are both off - as they should.

High beam switch still dead - but - passing button flashes the low beam bulb.

 

?

 

Cleaned all the contacts with contact cleaner, took apart both handlebar switches, put it all together as it should be, even checked if I mixed up the high beam and low beam bulb connector. Battery is new, contacts cleaned, so I checked the schematics and tested the Bu/Bl wire that is only routed from the power side of the headlight relay to the bulb. 

 

HmzMFrM.jpg

 

So probing the the Bu/Bl relay pin on the connector to the main harness connector under the tank, I got continuity.

From the main harness connector to the bulb socket, I got continuity.

 

However, testing directly from the 87 relay pin to the high beam bulb socket - nothing. Which seems to be impossible and makes no sense, so...any ideas? :D

 

 

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On 6/12/2022 at 5:24 PM, Tom said:

So probing the the Bu/Bl relay pin on the connector to the main harness connector under the tank, I got continuity.

From the main harness connector to the bulb socket, I got continuity.

 

However, testing directly from the 87 relay pin to the high beam bulb socket - nothing. Which seems to be impossible and makes no sense, so...any ideas? :D

It appears that the connector is where the fault is, but that seems really odd.

 

I've never heard of the slider switch, position, or passing button; that's all foreign to me.

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5 minutes ago, SwampNut said:

 

LOL, good work, whether intentional or not.

 

Totally international.

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aZ2lX4K.jpg

 

This is how the throttle side switch looks on Euro bikes.

 

Right position - all lights off

Middle - small position light on

Left - low beam and position

 

In my case, when this switch is flipped to the right, when every bulb in the headlight is turned off, pressing the "Passing" button on the right hand switch fires up the low beam bulb.

 

I've sketched out simplified diagram of the headlight so I can understand what's happening...

 

S5vTVNB.jpg

 

LB being low beam, HB being high beam.....when the lights are turned completely off on the throttle-side switch, the Passing button that should flash the high beam, in my case it flashes the low beam. 

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My only guess is that since there's no continuity in the connection to the HB, pressing the 'pass' button is back feeding to the low beam.  It appears that you isolated the HB open circuit to the harness connector under the tank since each side of it had continuity to their ends, but when you connected it there was no continuity through the it.  I would expect there to be visible corrosion or discoloration on the connector, but not always.  Not fixing that connection and continuing to test stuff seems silly, that needs to be fixed.

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4 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

 I would expect there to be visible corrosion or discoloration on the connector, but not always.  

 

How does this look?

 

xGSQlcQ.jpg

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2 hours ago, Tom said:

 

How does this look?

 

xGSQlcQ.jpg

It looks shittier than I expected.  There's a few that look quite questionable.  My guess on the dead one: upper photo, bottom row, the one left of center, it looks super fucked.

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Damn I figured the connector is "ok", this was after I washed it up a bit with contact cleaner and tooth brush...this makes me worry about other connectors...

 

Although this one might have it the hardest since it's sort of halfway exposed in that little gap between the tank and frame, so when I go to wash the bike, and I do it somewhat often, it might've added up to the problem over time...

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I see one or two that are NOT suspicious.  I have no real advice on cleaning corroded terminals, I rarely see corrosion, and when I do, the fixes are never reliable.  Oscar...WD40?

 

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26 minutes ago, SwampNut said:

Oscar...WD40?

WD40 would do an ok job of protecting the new terminals in the repair harness that would take the place of that thing.  Terminals that are only corroded can be brought back reasonably well, some of those look like they've been cooked and relaxed/burnt, those are probably unsalvageable.  They could be cleaned and tightened back up, but will probably fail again.  Part two is how much corrosion has started seeping up the wires past the terminals and stopping it.

 

Some of them might be ok if they're low load, but if it's a keeper you should probably address them all now and be done with it.  Assuming that connector is there for ease of assembly and doesn't need to be disconnected for servicing I'd do away with the whole thing and butt connect them all.  If it needs to be removable there are options.  Let us know which way it needs to be and we can give advice on making it a one time cure.

Edited by superhawk996
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11 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

butt connect them all.

 

I agree on permanent connections, but the last few years have taught me to use alternatives to the normal butts.  Anyway, when OP decides what he wants we can get into that.  For one, self-sealing Dolphins would be good.  Also the press-down splices with sealer.

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Wait, how risky would it be for me to cut the connector and splice it on the existing wires? 

 

I don't want to go into the "replace the entire harness" category :D

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1 hour ago, Tom said:

Wait, how risky would it be for me to cut the connector and splice it on the existing wires? 

 

I don't want to go into the "replace the entire harness" category :D

 

My quick answer is, "Yes, you can."

 

My long answer is that you be certain that the end result will fit on the bike as your connectors will be larger than the OEM connection.  Unless you can find a salvage bike and get the related part from it and swap it out.  I did this when replacing the stator on my XX...it fried the OEM connection.

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2 hours ago, Tom said:

Wait, how risky would it be for me to cut the connector and splice it on the existing wires? 

 

I don't want to go into the "replace the entire harness" category :D

There should be no need to replace the harness.  My suggestion, if you don't need to disconnect that for accessing stuff for servicing, is to cut out the connector and splice the wires together. The wires may have corrosion, it tends to seep from the connectors up the wires.  Once you cut off the terminals and strip the wires you'll be able to see.  Depending on how much extra length the harness has you might have to add some wire to make up for the length lost.  If you push the terminals out of the plastic first you'll have to cut off less wire and they might be long enough to reach without adding any wire. 

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4 hours ago, Tom said:

Wait, how risky would it be for me to cut the connector and splice it on the existing wires? 

 

You're fairly new here, we don't know your skill level.  Rate yourself from 1-10 where 1 is "injures self with screwdriver between tool chest and bike" and 10 is "rebuilds engines through the exhaust pipe like a gynecologist."  But really, using decent components and tools, it's not a big deal.  Particularly if you do one wire at a time and be patient.  I have a marginal view of Croatia from the outside from an in law, but not sure what your ability to procure this type of goods is.  He mostly talks about how much better the cheese is there than here.  And the Ajvar, and I have to agree on that one.

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Also be sure you note one thing Oscar mentioned.  Corrosion can creep up the wire.  You have to remove it all, like a cancer, or it will continue to spread.

 

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Haha no problem I'll manage to splice it up, Mouser delivers here as well, I have knipex tools and TE splices, and I'll probably cut the original Honda connector there and just put 2 12-pin DT's in place. But I'll try the hack method first just to see if it works with one wire from relay to bulb.

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Those are the bare ones, right?  That you solder and cover with heat shrink tape?

 

Sounds like you have experience and tools, you'll be good.

 

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So here it is, given that connector continuity test gave some suspicion, and with @superhawk996 saying the connector terminals look worse than expected, I went on with one more test...

 

Bit hack, bit ghetto approach but jumping male and female sides of it with this specialized device gave results. High/low rocker switch works, Passing button works. 

 

Crimp time!

 

uM4UD3u.jpg

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It would be a ghetto hack to leave it that way, and I've seen shit like that, but it's a perfectly reasonable diagnostic hack.  I'm glad the mystery is solved.

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