Zero Knievel Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Got my replacement R/R from Ricks. Theirs only comes with the 2 red and the 2 green going to the bike. The black (R/R side) wire isn't there. What does it connect to on the bike side (white, in my case)? Is it an optional wire or did Ricks send me the wrong part? Rick's says it's a sensor wire and I should just tape off the wire on the bike's side of the harness. Can't find a schematic online to look at to see what the white wire feeds to. **Found the PDF in the pinned topics forum** *** Wire goes to the following.... 1. Engine stop sensor 2. Fuse block - 10A fuse to Starter & Engine Stop Sensor 3. Engine Stop & Starter Switch (wire diagram leads me to believe it is the kickstand kill switch). I can trace the power from the fuse block, through the engine stop switch and on to the engine stop sensor, but I don't know what function it has running to the R/R. As the newer R/R says the fifth wire is redundant and can just be taped off, I question what the original purpose was for the wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Well, no replies, eh? So far, so good. Got the stator on. Misadventure happened when I put it together. The gear to the starter motor fell out. I only heard ONE thing hit the floor and couldn't find any other missing parts. Seemed odd that it just sat there, but I looked about, no spare parts lying around. Put the cover on, went to crank, and got this RRRRR...RRRRR as the motor tried to turn over. Pulled off the stator cover...nice gouge mark on the inside of the stator compartment where the gear was mashing into the case. Aluminum shavings everywhere. Cussing a blue streak and trying to clean everything up, I'm still looking about...still no missing parts lying around. Finally, I spy a small thing sitting UNDER the tire. :icon_wall: After cleaning out every last bit of metal shavings (a little makes a lot), I put it back together and it started up fine. Stator tested perfectly. :icon_pray: Now to the R/R. The aftermarket one is 1/4 inch THICKER than OEM, which means it touches the inside of the rear cowl. Anyone put one of these in? I figure you have to shave off some of the fins to ensure it doesn't touch (1/4" at the end), but I'm not sure how far "in" to begin the slope. Tips appreciated. As far as wiring, I'm replacing the stock stator plug with bullet connectors with dielectric grease packed inside. It took a while (and more than one store), but I found the kind with heat-shrink (weatherproof) over the ends AND I went to a main street electrical store and bought a package of heat shrink tubing WITH glue inside. I did the stator side easy enough. Strip off a little, crimp on the bullet connector and heat gun until the wire was sealed in. Then I scooted down the 2" segment of shrink wrap with glue into place and heat gunned it down into place. Wire end should be watertight now. Once fully assembled, I might use a bigger piece of heat shrink to seal the whole connection (no glue so I can just cut off the outermost layer and unplug the connection) or wrap it in self-sealing tape or electrical tape. That's up in the air right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrick Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Man, when it rains it pours... I haven't done a stator yet, so I can't offer any advice on that. As for the R/R, I had to completely relocate mine anyways ('97) as the Honda luggage racks interfere with the stock location. Basically, I have nothing positive to add, but wanted to document my empathy for your difficulties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 never done it myself so don't have a clue.. Have heard of people grinding down the cooling fins some on the R/R's to make them fit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewie Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 The black wire is a switched feed from the battery. It provides the regulator section with a read on battery voltage and determines whether the SCRs send the stator output to the battery or shunt it to ground. Mosfet units (ala Yamaha R1) don't need that signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Well, no replies, eh? So far, so good. Got the stator on. Misadventure happened when I put it together. The gear to the starter motor fell out. I only heard ONE thing hit the floor and couldn't find any other missing parts. Seemed odd that it just sat there, but I looked about, no spare parts lying around. Put the cover on, went to crank, and got this RRRRR...RRRRR as the motor tried to turn over. Pulled off the stator cover...nice gouge mark on the inside of the stator compartment where the gear was mashing into the case. Aluminum shavings everywhere. Cussing a blue streak and trying to clean everything up, I'm still looking about...still no missing parts lying around. Finally, I spy a small thing sitting UNDER the tire. :icon_wall: After cleaning out every last bit of metal shavings (a little makes a lot), I put it back together and it started up fine. Stator tested perfectly. :icon_pray: Now to the R/R. The aftermarket one is 1/4 inch THICKER than OEM, which means it touches the inside of the rear cowl. Anyone put one of these in? I figure you have to shave off some of the fins to ensure it doesn't touch (1/4" at the end), but I'm not sure how far "in" to begin the slope. Tips appreciated. As far as wiring, I'm replacing the stock stator plug with bullet connectors with dielectric grease packed inside. It took a while (and more than one store), but I found the kind with heat-shrink (weatherproof) over the ends AND I went to a main street electrical store and bought a package of heat shrink tubing WITH glue inside. I did the stator side easy enough. Strip off a little, crimp on the bullet connector and heat gun until the wire was sealed in. Then I scooted down the 2" segment of shrink wrap with glue into place and heat gunned it down into place. Wire end should be watertight now. Once fully assembled, I might use a bigger piece of heat shrink to seal the whole connection (no glue so I can just cut off the outermost layer and unplug the connection) or wrap it in self-sealing tape or electrical tape. That's up in the air right now. I will be amazed if the bullet connectors last, they are not made for the kind of amperage that the stator puts out. If you are pulling the plug off, just go ahead and solder the wires on, that will be reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 I will be amazed if the bullet connectors last, they are not made for the kind of amperage that the stator puts out. If you are pulling the plug off, just go ahead and solder the wires on, that will be reliable. Understood, but I don't like the idea of having to use a soldering gun every time I ever need to test the stator (which I've been told is recommended whenever you change a battery...do a full system test). Frankly, have you seen the POS crap on the OEM plugs? If that is considered "good enough" for OEM, I can't see why a bullet connector would have problems doing the job. If anything, the bullet connectors have more metal and a solid connection with no air/water gaps for contamination (at least...not the way I'm doing it). At the very least, what I'm doing should work fine until winter maintenance. I'll inspect the connections then and see how they are holding up. If in doubt, I'll find a better option or commit to soldering them at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 The black wire is a switched feed from the battery. It provides the regulator section with a read on battery voltage and determines whether the SCRs send the stator output to the battery or shunt it to ground. Mosfet units (ala Yamaha R1) don't need that signal. Yeah, the people at Ricks said their unit no longer needed that wire...although I'm not sure HOW it knows without it. I presume it reads the voltage via the red or green wires and does it internally rather than relying on a fifth wire just for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I will be amazed if the bullet connectors last, they are not made for the kind of amperage that the stator puts out. If you are pulling the plug off, just go ahead and solder the wires on, that will be reliable. Understood, but I don't like the idea of having to use a soldering gun every time I ever need to test the stator (which I've been told is recommended whenever you change a battery...do a full system test). Frankly, have you seen the POS crap on the OEM plugs? If that is considered "good enough" for OEM, I can't see why a bullet connector would have problems doing the job. If anything, the bullet connectors have more metal and a solid connection with no air/water gaps for contamination (at least...not the way I'm doing it). At the very least, what I'm doing should work fine until winter maintenance. I'll inspect the connections then and see how they are holding up. If in doubt, I'll find a better option or commit to soldering them at that point. I would suggest you listen to maiksail . He certainly knows his way around volts . Here is your problem , you don`t listen to people who know way more then you in any given field and as as result - in this - your bike brakes down way more then it should . Perhaps you should just pay someone to work on your bike . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Over build is the way to go, not just enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 I would suggest you listen to maiksail . He certainly knows his way around volts . Here is your problem , you don`t listen to people who know way more then you in any given field and as as result - in this - your bike brakes down way more then it should . Perhaps you should just pay someone to work on your bike . I do appreciate his input, and I do see how a direct connection is best. I just want to be able to test the stator without having to whip out a soldering gun in the future (or on the road, like what happened to me last week). If the stator was "set it and forget it" for its lifetime, I'd not have an issue with just direct connecting it and sealing it up. It's only because I'm told you should test it when changing the battery that I find it problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I would suggest you listen to maiksail . He certainly knows his way around volts . Here is your problem , you don`t listen to people who know way more then you in any given field and as as result - in this - your bike brakes down way more then it should . Perhaps you should just pay someone to work on your bike . I do appreciate his input, and I do see how a direct connection is best. I just want to be able to test the stator without having to whip out a soldering gun in the future (or on the road, like what happened to me last week). If the stator was "set it and forget it" for its lifetime, I'd not have an issue with just direct connecting it and sealing it up. It's only because I'm told you should test it when changing the battery that I find it problematic. AGAIN, the stator can be tested at the plug going to the reg/rec. It is not necessary to test it where the stator plugs into the main harness. Are you sure you're listening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 AGAIN, the stator can be tested at the plug going to the reg/rec. It is not necessary to test it where the stator plugs into the main harness. Are you sure you're listening? Maybe we are on different wavelengths, but do you understand the "best" connection (as I understand what's been said) is "direct wire" (hard wiring each stator line to the R/R via soldering and sealing)? That means NO PLUG(s). I can't disconnect from the R/R without desoldering the individual wires, and testing requires disconnecting the stator from the R/R. Now, if you are talking about testing it at the plug going from the R/R to the main harness, say that, because that's not how I'm understanding what I think you are proposing. The OEM plug is prone to contamination issues. Hence why I'm looking for a better option without resorting to a somewhat permanent connection. Not trying to be an ass, but somehow I think we keep missing each other on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Could be... What I was saying was to solder the 3 wire connection at the end of the wires that come out of the stator. Those wires are about a foot long and removing that connector and soldering at that point is common and not a bad idea. You with me so far? The 3 yellow stator wires then proceed through the harness where they emerge and have pins in a plug which connect to the reg/rec, along with a + and a -...I'm not sure that anyone suggested doing away with that joint by soldering the wires directly to the terminals of the reg/rec. I sure as hell wouldn't do that....So, at that point, you either put individual terminal ends on the wires and plug them onto the reg/rec independent of each other or you replace the plastic connector on the harness side and plug it back into the reg/rec... That is the point for you to test the stator in the future. Does that clarify things for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Does that clarify things for you? Would you be surprised if I said "no?" Could be... What I was saying was to solder the 3 wire connection at the end of the wires that come out of the stator. Those wires are about a foot long and removing that connector and soldering at that point is common and not a bad idea. You with me so far? The 3 yellow stator wires then proceed through the harness where they emerge and have pins in a plug which connect to the reg/rec, along with a + and a -...I'm not sure that anyone suggested doing away with that joint by soldering the wires directly to the terminals of the reg/rec. I sure as hell wouldn't do that....So, at that point, you either put individual terminal ends on the wires and plug them onto the reg/rec independent of each other or you replace the plastic connector on the harness side and plug it back into the reg/rec... That is the point for you to test the stator in the future." Okay, here is what I have. The stator. 3 wires HARD WIRED to the stator (no plug). They come out from the stator for about 2-3 feet and terminate at a 3-pin connector. The R/R has a total of 7 wires. 2 red and 2 green that go to a 6-pin (only 4 in use) connector that attaches to the bike's main harness. 3 yellow wires go to a 3-pin connector that attaches to the connector coming from the stator. I'm proposing replacing the bulky (and exposed to air/water) 3-pin connector interface with 3 bullet connectors where each connection uses dielectric grease and heat shrink to ensure no air/water contamination. The makers of the bullet connectors say they will handle 15A and up to 200V with no issues and I'm asking Ricks what the max amperage output of their stator is...I know the voltage is within specs. It seems you visualize a stator wire that has connectors on both ends....this one did not...nor did the one I pulled off the bike that was bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 So you are saying that the wires that come out of the stator go all the way, un-interrupted, to the plug that goes into the reg/rec? Then where is the 3 plug connector that you are going to replace with butt connectors? That is the same connector I am saying to remove and solder the wires to each other. Ya know, its funny...I can read and understand what you are saying, which is in essence the same thing I am saying.... But when it comes to understanding what I'm saying you don't understand.... Done with :icon_wall: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 So you are saying that the wires that come out of the stator go all the way, un-interrupted, to the plug that goes into the reg/rec? Yes. I'll do a Brad drawing below..... As you can see, I don't understand how if I direct wire via soldering I would be able to test the stator in the future without desoldering the wires. You say to test at the plug, but after I do as you suggest, there is no longer any plug to disconnect and test at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Ah, OK...why didn't you do the Brad drawing sooner? Look here for a connector to replace the factory POS: http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Pr...connectors.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Ah, OK...why didn't you do the Brad drawing sooner? Look here for a connector to replace the factory POS: http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Pr...connectors.html Unfortunately, that puts me right back where I started. I only need one connector...certainly not enough for the $20 minimum. Never mind the shipping delay or cost for a small order from Japan. Ricks suggested Del City for connectors and told me to look up Metri-Pack. http://www.delcity.net/store/Connector-Hou..._797696.a_1.t_1 Ricks said the amperage output was probably 30A max +/- but divided across all 3 lines...so not more than 10A per line. Within spec of the hardware on hand. Do my idea for now and change over to something better later when the parts come in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Good find....So when will you have them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Ah, OK...why didn't you do the Brad drawing sooner? Look here for a connector to replace the factory POS: http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Pr...connectors.html Unfortunately, that puts me right back where I started. I only need one connector...certainly not enough for the $20 minimum. Never mind the shipping delay or cost for a small order from Japan. Ricks suggested Del City for connectors and told me to look up Metri-Pack. http://www.delcity.net/store/Connector-Hou..._797696.a_1.t_1 Ricks said the amperage output was probably 30A max +/- but divided across all 3 lines...so not more than 10A per line. Within spec of the hardware on hand. Do my idea for now and change over to something better later when the parts come in? Zero, what you want to do should work just fine. Using the dielectric grease is the key. I still have the original stator connectors (still white) and factory test plugs on both of my '99 Birds, all filled with dielectric grease. Other than one fried R/R, I have never had a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Good find....So when will you have them? BLOODY HELL! Okay, found this.... http://www.whiteproducts.com/sealed280.shtml They come in kits too (all parts included). Problem is the cost. Unless you buy at least 10 of them, the price each is $27 or more. I have to find some place the sells the kits at a lower cost. So far, every hit I get comes up with distributors who only sell at the better price ($8-9 each) if you by in large quantities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Okay, it's back together and working....all I have left to do is pull bolts and apply thread locker (should have done it earlier). Went with the bullet connectors. Photos below are in no particular order. Male bullets w/heat shrink ends on stator side with an additional layer of heat shrink w/glue securing them on for good measure and adding weatherproofing. On the R/R side, I applied the female bullets w/heat shrink ends. Added the layer of heat shrink w/glue and because I could only get that shrink wrap up so far, I added another layer leaving about 1/8" of exposed material. Slathered in the dielectric grease and put them together one at a time. Then, for good measure, slid over another layer of heat shrink w/o glue and sealed the whole shebang. For the connector from the R/R to the bike, I didn't want to mess with the OEM connector. If I fiddled with the now redundant black wire, it would be an issue if I went with an OEM R/R in the future, so I hosed it down with electrical parts cleaner to get all the gunk out, poured in the dielectric grease, and put it together. Then I wrapped the whole connection with self-adhering (rubber) tape. Best I could think of as an option. It should work fine for now. It certainly is more protection than the stock hardware had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 Well, thanks to my being neurotic, the wires are now soldered instead of crimped. The "what ifs" kept nagging at me, and I knew I wasn't going to rest well until I did the soldering thing. Perhaps it was best. One of the wires popped out of the crimp when I tried to pull the connector apart. Ironically, the "heat shrink" used on the bullet connectors were like steel. Why regular heat shrink isn't made of this stuff is beyond me. Soldering, however, was a pain in the ass. The technique itself is simple...if you can work on a bench with good lighting. Trying to do it with wires already in place and connected to hardware is another thing. Get them twisted together and in a position where they don't budge as you GENTLY work one drop of solder at a time into place. My original connections were probably good as done....testing for heat the new connections had the wires just as warm as before with the bullets. I'm surprised someone doesn't just make butt connectors with a solder center tube rather than a crimp (or you crimp to hold) with heat shrink on both ends. Insert wires, crimp, hit with heat gun, solder melts and fuses wires wile heat shrink seals wire ends in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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