DaveK Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Pulled the headlight fuse when I bought the bike and haven't started it since because I had to wait for the cable to re-program the ECU for my new performance mods. Cable comes and all downloads perfectly. The adaptation process works perfectly. I go to start the bike and I get a single click. It won't do anything more than click once. For some reason I put the headlight fuse back in...she fires right up. Why would the headlight fuse have ANYTHING to do with the bike starting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biometrix Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Because it's illegal to ride w/o a headlight on in the US on a M/C so I expect that it's a regulatory measure to allow import. (I actually have no idea if that's true or not...I'm just guessing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Because it's illegal to ride w/o a headlight on in the US on a M/C so I expect that it's a regulatory measure to allow import. (I actually have no idea if that's true or not...I'm just guessing) This Dave, I don't remember what bike it was, but I read about one that wouldn't run with the headlight fuses pulled to make it track ready. Don't have schemetics for the Triumph, but I bet they have it interlocked with the headlight circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Bill....I don't think it's a US thing. The guys on the RAT board said that the headlight fuse is a common headlight/starter crossover relay. I'm not sure what that means but I guess the starter gets no power if the headlight fuse is missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biometrix Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Bill....I don't think it's a US thing. The guys on the RAT board said that the headlight fuse is a common headlight/starter crossover relay. I'm not sure what that means but I guess the starter gets no power if the headlight fuse is missing. You guess right...they are using the headlight circuit to energize the relay since it comes on when you turn the key. That's how I have my aux fuse box connected on the FJR but I would think the factory/engineers would have thought of a more elegant way to do it rather than the way I engineer things in my garage...then again it is a British bike. Told you I was just guessing anyhow. I like my theory better that it's the damn gubment trying to control things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 You get my message? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biometrix Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 You get my message? I did now...I was on vacation this week so my cell was shut off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 It's a fucking STUPID safety measure, but I guess more and more bikes are coming with them. At a rally, a guy on a Tiger had to call it quits and have his wife bring the trailer when his bike went dead and wouldn't start. Why? He put in an upgrade and there was a short in one of the wires...but it was for a tail light. So, hundreds to go to a rally, only to head home after one day...because the wiring was laid out so a non-functioning LIGHT (non-mission critical hardware) prevented the motor from running. What if he was in the middle of nowhere and could die from exposure because he couldn't figure out what was keeping the light from coming on. Sooner or later, there WILL be product liability suits over this feature because a motor cutting out over a blown bulb or shorted wire for a running light will happen at the worst possible moment and get someone hurt or killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 It's a fucking STUPID safety measure, but I guess more and more bikes are coming with them. At a rally, a guy on a Tiger had to call it quits and have his wife bring the trailer when his bike went dead and wouldn't start. Why? He put in an upgrade and there was a short in one of the wires...but it was for a tail light. So, hundreds to go to a rally, only to head home after one day...because the wiring was laid out so a non-functioning LIGHT (non-mission critical hardware) prevented the motor from running. What if he was in the middle of nowhere and could die from exposure because he couldn't figure out what was keeping the light from coming on. Sooner or later, there WILL be product liability suits over this feature because a motor cutting out over a blown bulb or shorted wire for a running light will happen at the worst possible moment and get someone hurt or killed. So, in following your "logic" and I use the term loosely. Let's say this isn't the case and he is able to start his bike and heads out with no tail light. He gets rear-ended and killed because the drunk person that ran up behind him didn't see him because his tail light was out. His wife hires a lawyer and because he was able to start his bike with a non-functioning tail light she sues the manufacturer for millions of dollars in wrongful death suit. Then others step forward saying their loved ones also were killed because their bikes would start with a non-functioning tail light and it suddenly becomes a class action suit. This forces the manufacturer out of business. People like yourself are outraged that the simple solution of not being able to start the bike without a working tail light was not a safety feature on the bike. You take to BBSs to rail about how this could happen. Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I spent 20 minutes composing a post describing many different products that I have worked on that would fail due to a open light bulb. I decided to erase it because of the liabilitys that can occur with such designs. To me, many of these designs are not really about saftey. They are about lazy design, by engineers who will never use the product they are building. Most vehicles have dual tail light bulbs, and many have dual headlamps. With the use of computers on everything, a simple monitor and warning circuit could be built to warn of a lamp failure. I suspect that in Dave's case, the headlamp circuit was just a accessible source of power for the ignition circuit. What sucks is that we won't know about these shortcut designs until they let us down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 So, in following your "logic" and I use the term loosely. Let's say this isn't the case and he is able to start his bike and heads out with no tail light. He gets rear-ended and killed because the drunk person that ran up behind him didn't see him because his tail light was out. His wife hires a lawyer and because he was able to start his bike with a non-functioning tail light she sues the manufacturer for millions of dollars in wrongful death suit. Then others step forward saying their loved ones also were killed because their bikes would start with a non-functioning tail light and it suddenly becomes a class action suit. This forces the manufacturer out of business. People like yourself are outraged that the simple solution of not being able to start the bike without a working tail light was not a safety feature on the bike. You take to BBSs to rail about how this could happen. Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it? No. Maintaining your vehicle is YOUR responsibility. If the manufacturer wants to be more safety conscious, they should wire the lights so that when one goes out, something alerts you to the malfunction. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. If you are in an accident for not fixing it, that's your problem. More so, failed tail light or not, the guy rear-ending you is still responsible for being aware of the situation. He's the one responsible for harming you, not that your tail light went out and your bike didn't shut down to "protect you." In contrast, making it so that your motor cuts off when a bulb blows creates many instances during a motorcycle ride where a sudden loss of power...especially while in gear and under powered acceleration...would be a very bad thing. There is no excuse for a motor cutting out because a non-critical piece of hardware fails. The motor should only cut out automatically to preserve the motor from harm due to a hardware fault...not because a bulb won't come on. First time a rider lowsides because he looses his engine in the middle of a mountain curve, expect a lawsuit because once they figure out WHY the motor shut off for no reason, the only person to blame will be the manufacturer. A rider can't know WHEN a bulb will stop working, but the manufacturer should have known that a motorcycle losing its motor isn't going to be the same as a four-wheel automobile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 So, in following your "logic" and I use the term loosely. Let's say this isn't the case and he is able to start his bike and heads out with no tail light. He gets rear-ended and killed because the drunk person that ran up behind him didn't see him because his tail light was out. His wife hires a lawyer and because he was able to start his bike with a non-functioning tail light she sues the manufacturer for millions of dollars in wrongful death suit. Then others step forward saying their loved ones also were killed because their bikes would start with a non-functioning tail light and it suddenly becomes a class action suit. This forces the manufacturer out of business. People like yourself are outraged that the simple solution of not being able to start the bike without a working tail light was not a safety feature on the bike. You take to BBSs to rail about how this could happen. Sounds kind of stupid, doesn't it? No. Maintaining your vehicle is YOUR responsibility. If the manufacturer wants to be more safety conscious, they should wire the lights so that when one goes out, something alerts you to the malfunction. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. If you are in an accident for not fixing it, that's your problem. More so, failed tail light or not, the guy rear-ending you is still responsible for being aware of the situation. He's the one responsible for harming you, not that your tail light went out and your bike didn't shut down to "protect you." In contrast, making it so that your motor cuts off when a bulb blows creates many instances during a motorcycle ride where a sudden loss of power...especially while in gear and under powered acceleration...would be a very bad thing. There is no excuse for a motor cutting out because a non-critical piece of hardware fails. The motor should only cut out automatically to preserve the motor from harm due to a hardware fault...not because a bulb won't come on. First time a rider lowsides because he looses his engine in the middle of a mountain curve, expect a lawsuit because once they figure out WHY the motor shut off for no reason, the only person to blame will be the manufacturer. A rider can't know WHEN a bulb will stop working, but the manufacturer should have known that a motorcycle losing its motor isn't going to be the same as a four-wheel automobile. JCRich was just pointing out a very possible scenario in today's lidigous world. Also, I'll bet you a beer that once the bike is started and running, blowing a bulb will not cause the engine to die. It should only prevent the flow of power to the starter solenoid. This means if you blow a bulb, the starter button will not work, but push-starting should be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 JCRich was just pointing out a very possible scenario in today's lidigous world. Also, I'll bet you a beer that once the bike is started and running, blowing a bulb will not cause the engine to die. It should only prevent the flow of power to the starter solenoid. This means if you blow a bulb, the starter button will not work, but push-starting should be possible. Perhaps, but the guy with the Tiger had his bike DIE while on the road....he was on a divided 4-lane highway when it happened. Push starting is only an option if you have a carburetored motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97 exex Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Push starting is only an option if you have a carburetored motor. :icon_think: Push started a buddy's FI GSXR about a month ago... fuel pump kicks on as soon as you turn the key, but not enough juice to crank it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Push starting is only an option if you have a carburetored motor. :icon_think: Push started a buddy's FI GSXR about a month ago... fuel pump kicks on as soon as you turn the key, but not enough juice to crank it over. Ah. I presume that a "kill" switch would cut the power to the ignition/fuel pump...not just the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Push starting is only an option if you have a carburetored motor. :icon_think: Push started a buddy's FI GSXR about a month ago... fuel pump kicks on as soon as you turn the key, but not enough juice to crank it over. Ah. I presume that a "kill" switch would cut the power to the ignition/fuel pump...not just the starter. A "Kill" switch (like the red button) will. I hope you weren't trying to push start one with the kill switch off. If a battery is completely dead, as in won't even run the fuel pump, an FI bike shouldn't start. I have push started my 99 Bird on several occasions and a couple of friends Busas at the drag strip when their batteries got low. As far as a bike dying when you blow a bulb, if that's true (hope it's not), get a better engineered bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Push starting is only an option if you have a carburetored motor. You are wrong , what else is new . :icon_rolleyes Going back to OP , typical car has 30-40 fuses , bike - 5,10 the most ( there simply not enough space for full size fuse panel ) . Obviously engineers have to compromise and toss couple of things on the same fuse like headlights and starter relay . I don`t quite believe burned tail or headlight would cause the engine to cut , but then again Triumph is decedent of Bendix , so who knows . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 JCRich was just pointing out a very possible scenario in today's lidigous world. Also, I'll bet you a beer that once the bike is started and running, blowing a bulb will not cause the engine to die. It should only prevent the flow of power to the starter solenoid. This means if you blow a bulb, the starter button will not work, but push-starting should be possible. Perhaps, but the guy with the Tiger had his bike DIE while on the road....he was on a divided 4-lane highway when it happened. Everyone, including you, seems to be missing the point that the guy with the Tiger had his bike fail due to his own modifications to the electrical system. Come back and bitch when you've got a stock, unmolested bike that died while going down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Everyone, including you, seems to be missing the point that the guy with the Tiger had his bike fail due to his own modifications to the electrical system. Come back and bitch when you've got a stock, unmolested bike that died while going down the road. There's no place for logic in this conversation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Everyone, including you, seems to be missing the point that the guy with the Tiger had his bike fail due to his own modifications to the electrical system. Come back and bitch when you've got a stock, unmolested bike that died while going down the road. It is still retarded to design a kill switch that is triggered by a malfunction on a light circuit. The design was to kill the motor if a light failed...which is what the shorted wire was doing...killing the tail light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 It is still retarded to design a kill switch that is triggered by a malfunction on a light circuit. The design was to kill the motor if a light failed...which is what the shorted wire was doing...killing the tail light. I am far from convinced that this is the case. From what I can tell, your guy fucked up his own bike. As stated, let me know when a tail light failure shuts down a running, stock bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para045 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Bill....I don't think it's a US thing. The guys on the RAT board said that the headlight fuse is a common headlight/starter crossover relay. I'm not sure what that means but I guess the starter gets no power if the headlight fuse is missing. +1 They do stuff like that all over the world not just the US Not sure about the US but with a few brands of cars (Hyundai in particular) we get in Oz that wont crank without your foot on the brake, even if it's an auto and in park A new Hyundai van at work wont even let you move the selector on the auto box without your foot on the brake :icon_wall: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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