Dotetcher Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Would a bad battery be enough to fry a new rectifier? Put a new rectifier in yesterday, started the bike and read 13.7 volts at 3000 rpm. Goody. cCharged the old battery and rode to work today. Went to leave work this afternoon and the battery was almost dead. OK. Bad battery. Not holding a charge. Bought a new battery this afternoon, charged it and put it on the bike. Started the bike and am only reading 12.3 volts off the battery at 3000 rpm. I'm thinking the new rectifier is shot. So is it possible it fried that fast with a bad battery? Maybe that's what fried the old rectifier too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdxx Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Have you completely ruled out the stator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunedain Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Have you completely ruled out the stator? +1 did you follow this? http://www.cbr1100xx.org/files/reference/charging_diag.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 It looks to me like your stator is gone or almost gone. I just went through nearly this same situation back in August. Stator was fried, so I replaced it and replaced the R/R and battery for good measure. As posted above, go through the diagnostic procedure; it will help you isolate the fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBBXX Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 You know, It would be too easy to design a crowbar cct withing the R/R that would totally isolate and protect the Stator and R/R from an excessive load. My guess is that Honda just loves selling Stators and Regulators, so why spend even a few extra pennies not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2o player Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Would a bad battery be enough to fry a new rectifier? Put a new rectifier in yesterday, started the bike and read 13.7 volts at 3000 rpm. Goody. cCharged the old battery and rode to work today. Went to leave work this afternoon and the battery was almost dead. OK. Bad battery. Not holding a charge. Bought a new battery this afternoon, charged it and put it on the bike. Started the bike and am only reading 12.3 volts off the battery at 3000 rpm. I'm thinking the new rectifier is shot. So is it possible it fried that fast with a bad battery? Maybe that's what fried the old rectifier too. Check to make sure the plug in the rectifier is fully seated. Check for 12v+ on the red/white wire with the key turned on. Make sure you have 12v- on the green wire (ground). You should see 14.7 to 15.5 volts at 5000 rpm. over 14 at 3000 rpm. 13.7 is to low. The stator is easy to check if you have and know how to use an ohm meter. The 3 yellow wires in the rectifier plug are coming from the stator. First check to see if any of them read anything to ground. Put one lead to ground and the other to the yellow wires one at a time.They should read open just like you were holding the probes in the air. If you get any reading other than this you need to look further. Most likley this will confirm a bad stator. Next you need to check between each of the yellow wires. Each leg should read close to a dead short (.22 to .26 ohms) Try all combinations of the yellow wirews. They should all read the same. If you see high resistance or a big differance in the reading this to would indicate a bad stator. Unless your new battery was completly discharged it should be fine. Trickle charge the battery and test the battery either with a small load on it like a test light or after it has been off the charger for 10 minets or more. You shold see 12.6+ volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajjer9 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Bookmark this... and this... although it wont help you with what appears to be a stator issue...follow h2o player's post...some good info there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionStarCBRxx Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Would a bad battery be enough to fry a new rectifier? Put a new rectifier in yesterday, started the bike and read 13.7 volts at 3000 rpm. Goody. cCharged the old battery and rode to work today. Went to leave work this afternoon and the battery was almost dead. OK. Bad battery. Not holding a charge. Bought a new battery this afternoon, charged it and put it on the bike. Started the bike and am only reading 12.3 volts off the battery at 3000 rpm. I'm thinking the new rectifier is shot. So is it possible it fried that fast with a bad battery? Maybe that's what fried the old rectifier too. Check to make sure the plug in the rectifier is fully seated. Check for 12v+ on the red/white wire with the key turned on. Make sure you have 12v- on the green wire (ground). You should see 14.7 to 15.5 volts at 5000 rpm. over 14 at 3000 rpm. 13.7 is to low. The stator is easy to check if you have and know how to use an ohm meter. The 3 yellow wires in the rectifier plug are coming from the stator. First check to see if any of them read anything to ground. Put one lead to ground and the other to the yellow wires one at a time.They should read open just like you were holding the probes in the air. If you get any reading other than this you need to look further. Most likley this will confirm a bad stator. Next you need to check between each of the yellow wires. Each leg should read close to a dead short (.22 to .26 ohms) Try all combinations of the yellow wirews. They should all read the same. If you see high resistance or a big differance in the reading this to would indicate a bad stator. Unless your new battery was completly discharged it should be fine. Trickle charge the battery and test the battery either with a small load on it like a test light or after it has been off the charger for 10 minets or more. You shold see 12.6+ volts. *** Just replaced my R/R as well as well as the battery. In the link http://www.cbr1100xx.org/files/reference/charging_diag.pdf but I have a question... Right after the step where it tells you to check the voltage at 2500RPM then at 5000RPM and it fails with less than 13.5V so you then determine the number of wires (my case 3 for 97 BlackBird) -> You have permanent magnet alternator system so connect red lead up to red output wire on RR. Leave RR connected to the bike Check the meter. I did not understand how to check the red wire while leaving it connected to the bike? The step your suggesting is when checking the red/white and green is that with the R/R plugged in? or do I need to push the voltmeter leads behind the plug to where the wires feed into the plug? The step about checking the stator... my question is the same... key on or off, bike runnnig or not? R/R unplugged or plugged in? I apologize for asking such a dumb question... please don't flame me for it...but I am not too swift on electrical. I don't know when it makes a difference to leave something plugged and unplug/or just having voltage to it or the system running... to check voltage/resistance. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionStarCBRxx Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Ok so slowly getting a handle on this. - I really need electrical 101 for dummies!! Thank the lord for google and a manual. Continuity is measured with ignition off and key off. No sources of power for this test or you blow your volt meter. The continuity setting on most voltmeters will beep when there is continuity and display the ohms. When testing the three stator wires within the R/R plug on my blackbird against the green ground, there is nothing. This is a good sign. +pass When testing continuity between all three yellow wires. I get a beep and it measures .6 ohms. All three wires with the different combination measure .6 ohms. But I believe that .6 is greater than the +.2/-.2 ohms. (Math skills are fuzzy when dealing with decimals) -fail I did find one other thing that pertains to this topic. If your bike is not grounding properly then that would cause the battery to drain and never stay charged. To test continuity in the ground unplug the negative terminal of the battery. Then put the positive lead to the negative battery post and the negative lead to the negative cable and it should 0 out with no continuity. When I checked this on my bike, the continuity alarm sounded instantly, but then died within a second and no value was shown on the voltmeter. Next time I post some really dumb questions, just give a link or tell me to google something. There is a lot I don't know, but enjoy the process of learning. Please confirm my findings on the .6 ohms that would indicate a bad stator. :icon_think: Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_40 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I've had no problem with my stator or RR for that matter. I did take electronics in collage years ago. I wouldn't say that .6 ohm was a shot stator althought it might be I'm not experanced with them. Do you know forsure your multimeter is accuate? it wouldn't take much to be off .4 ohm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBBXX Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I've had no problem with my stator or RR for that matter. I did take electronics in collage years ago. I wouldn't say that .6 ohm was a shot stator althought it might be I'm not experanced with them. Do you know forsure your multimeter is accuate? it wouldn't take much to be off .4 ohm... I agree It is highly unlikely the windings will increase in resistance. They may open completely, or resistance will decrease, indicating shorted windings. The latter is more probable. The wire in the windings is coated with a lacquer. When the stator overheats this lacquer burns off and some off the wires begin to short together. Something to consider. When measuring resistance you’re using DC current and basically measuring a length of wire. This is why resistance is so low. Because the wire is wound in such a way to develop an EM field, the AC impedance is much greater. This means, to AC the resistance of the stator appears much higher. Even though these shorts don’t change the DC resistance much, it has drastic affects on the AC impedance and may actually look like a short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionStarCBRxx Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Its your second statement that worries me... *** QUOTE *** Something to consider. When measuring resistance you’re using DC current and basically measuring a length of wire. This is why resistance is so low. Because the wire is wound in such a way to develop an EM field, the AC impedance is much greater. This means, to AC the resistance of the stator appears much higher. Even though these shorts don’t change the DC resistance much, it has drastic affects on the AC impedance and may actually look like a short. *** END QUOTE *** I can't find the article now but I thougth I read something to the effect that having that extra resistance affects the output of the alternator. The example was using 1 gauge smaller sized wiring in an automobile ground created the higher resistance, which knocked a 130 Alternator down to something like 85... or something like that. Again I don't have a handle on these concepts yet. Any suggestions on books for electrical... something that teaches the basic concepts of wiring and how to troubleshoot circuits? I pick up stuff fast... but I have to have the foundation. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosequis driver Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Would a bad battery be enough to fry a new rectifier? Put a new rectifier in yesterday, started the bike and read 13.7 volts at 3000 rpm. Goody. cCharged the old battery and rode to work today. Went to leave work this afternoon and the battery was almost dead. OK. Bad battery. Not holding a charge. Bought a new battery this afternoon, charged it and put it on the bike. Started the bike and am only reading 12.3 volts off the battery at 3000 rpm. I'm thinking the new rectifier is shot. So is it possible it fried that fast with a bad battery? Could just be a crappy R/R. I went through at least four (4) rectifiers during the last 10 months. They were ElectroSport's ESR580s and they all failed. If I didn't make a habit of putting my bike on a battery tender every night when I got home from work I would have clearly discovered the after market parts were bad much earlier than I did, noting that the shop did a full diagnostics on the bike to rule out the stator, bad battery, etc... After the third one went bad (or was it the fourth) I purchased one of the improved Honda OEM 2nd Generation Rectifier/ Regulators from Roy Ayers to have on hand "just in case". I also installed a voltage gauge on my bird so that I could monitor the thing "on the road" since it seemed to test out OK with my digital multimeter in the garage and at the shop. Bingo... it was bad too. I put the OEM R/R on the bike and it consistently putting out between 12.8v and 13.4v. The ESR580s are gone and so are my electrical problems... at least for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionStarCBRxx Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 thanks all for your patience with this. I checked with a dealer service manager and he did not belive that the .6 was enough to be worried about either. That small of a differrence could be just attributed to the voltmeter type I was using. His two main points were 1) Ensure that there is no continuity in the ground and the stator wires. 2) validate that when measuring the stator wires and checking continuity that it is relatively the same across all three wires. In my case each yellow measured .6 ohms. Thanks Dosequis about the aftermarket RR. I mentioned earlier that I did change out the Regulator/Rectifier but I did not state where I got it from... I decided to try what the some of the others were doing like Pete and use the R1 rectifier. It was as simple as the instructions show in the important threads. I have measured that and it is working well. Again if anyone has suggestions on a good book for learning how to troubleshoot circuits and learning the concepts of voltmeters I would appreciate it. As my son gets older, we are going to build robots and circuits and all sorts of cool stuff... I want him to have a better concept of electricty than his old man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.