mikeG Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 My 99 XX picked up a screw in the rear tire, and since they have 9000 miles on them, it's time to buy a new set. The 57's are OEM replacements, but I had the 020's on my previous VFR and really liked them. I am a sport touring rider rather than a peg scratcher, so mileage is a priority as well as decent grip. What say the list? MikeG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I normally drift between tire brands and types to try. I ended up with 020's for the last two changes. I like them a lot. I was at the gap on the weekend and burned them right to the edges without them slipping. Last time I changed my rear tire, I had 17K km's on it. I hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_XX Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 The list says Avon 45/46 - BT 020 - Michelin Pilot Road, but the list says it often, so now the list also says do a SEARCH. Da List Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEXX Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 The 010 is softer than the 020. I'm running the 010's and love`em. They warm up very fast and have excellent grip. I will definitely order another anoter set of these. Chapparal has them for $186/set delivered to your door. Some run the 010 up front for its grip and the 020 on the rear for the higher mileage. I hear the 020 also has exceptional grip.... Dexx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I don't think I know anybody who is happy with the 020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I've rode a XX with the 020's, and they do have great grip, but suffer the same problem the 010's do with serious front tire cupping long before the tire is worn out enough to warrant replacement. The 020's definitely last longer than the 010's, but I would stick with the Avon's, or another "dual compound" type tire that will resist center wear, and cupping. I've been more than happy with the Avon's, after switching from the Dunlop 207's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR71BLACKBIRDXX Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I agree.....010's cupped very badly @ 2000 miles. Enough so I had to replace them. Running 020's now for 2500 and still look pretty good. I still think Metzeler MEZ4's are the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I am very happy withe the Avon 45/46's Had 020's front cupped bad. 010's, Dunlop's 205 and 220 fronts cup. So far 1500 miles no cupping on 45, great stick and handling. Have to wear out to see mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 I think there is no winner in the tire discussions, everyone has their opinions and what works for them. Some hate Avons, Pete loves 'em Some hate 020s, Mikey loves 'em Some find 010s cup, Dexx loves 'em I guess you can try them and be sure. It'd be interesting to see what pressure people run and how much wieght they are carrying on their bike...wait I see a poll coming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeG Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 Knowing the large number of threads on the subject of tires, I tried to focus my question on preferences between the BT57's or BT020's. Since no one even mentioned the 57's, I'll take that as a "no confidence" vote. I used to be a Metzeler person, and went through 2 sets of MEZ4's on my old VFR. In both cases, I got good mileage/handling, but the front tires wore on the sides into a triangular profile, and started feeling pretty non-linear once worn. I then tried 020's for a season on the VFR and was pretty happy. Price is better too. Guess I'll try a set on the Bird. MikeG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Since no one even mentioned the 57's I hate mine... They came stock, and they SUCK SUCK SUCK... I can't wait to wear them out so I can get something else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXX Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Nik, get the fuck out of the Garage and back in the Pub!!!!!! MaXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithrandir Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 What's do you find wrong with them Nik? The BT57 is the precursor tyre to the BT010. Quite grippy and handle pretty much everything you throw at them unless you want to do track days. Over time they don't change properties like the D207s would (you could cook them after a single hard riding session) Maybe your riding style and/or bike setup needs looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRB NW WA State Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 The 010/020 controversy goes round and round on this forum. I’ve changed my tune from time to time over the years. I’m currently running an 010 front and 020 rear. Before that it was 020 at both ends, then the stock BT-57s or whatever. Did not Bridgestone distance themselves from the 010 and 020 for use on Beast Bikes? That was the rumor, at some point. I can believe it. First, the rear: The 020 rear provides me HUGE mileage, I shit you not: my current rear is almost dusted but has tread and (I think) 11 thousand miles on it. I keep records, which are not in front of me at the moment. The first 020 I ran did the same thing, also. I have no bitches at all about the 020 rear, since it sticks well in the rain and delivers astounding mileage. Understand I don’t chuck the bike around like a sportbike, but I do ride fairly quickly. I find the 020 rear quite predictable, designed for Beast Bikes or not. Thumbs up on that one. Now the front, the problem child: I’ve had 010 and 020 on the front. Neither proved satisfactory. Both fall off very hard after a few miles from new, cup, and behave very strangely all the way to the end. The 020 was far worse than the 010 as it aged, and in fact dropped me on my ass last year (wouldn’t warm up, sudden stop, whammo). I’d put an 020 front on a cruiser, but not a sportbike of any kind. I have an 010 on at the moment, mileage unknown though it’s getting there. It started out marginal, then got weird quickly after new. It’s cupped to all hell and back. Despite a full-boogie revamp of the front forks by Race Tech, the tire still tries to upset the applecart. I see the end is near so I’ll rip it off with relish. Something’s fundamentally not right about that tire on Beast bikes, I believe. I haven’t settled on replacements yet, though I want something that provides more mileage than “absolute grip.” Front tires have been challenging on this bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithrandir Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 The 010 front has some fairly bad fatal flaws in the tread design. In Australia, and I also believe europe, the 010 line cannot be purchased any more. The replacement is the 012R. It uses the same compound as the 012SS, but has a different carcass and more groves for better wet handling. I'm surprised they haven't made the same move over here. Maybe trying to get rid of old stock? I've run 010s on a number of different bikes, and the rear is quite an exceptional tyre. The front is pretty good, but they've all cupped. However, they are all lighter bikes than the XX (VTR, VFR, ZX6R etc) and the cupping wasn't to the point of being annoying. I've never heard a good comment about the 020 front, but I like 020 rear. Ridden quite a few VFRs with the 010/020 combo and they handle wear and grip really well. They don't handle racetracks well, but for general fast road riding, they're more than passable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimakazi Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 I don't think I know anybody who is happy with the 020. I was originally on the BT57 which was OK and lasted 17,000km. I had a set of Dunlop 220's and the rear was completely down to the inner layers of rubber at 13,000km. The front is still on there but seriously cupped and doing really nasty things over cats eyes in the wet. I've put a new 020 rear on and I'm totally happy with it. My mate has got 22,000km out of his 020 rear and front. Both are now worn but no cupping. So warning on the Dunlop 220's - they wear fast and cup like crazy. Maybe I'll try Avons next time. How would an Avon front go with an 020 rear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluebird Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 I don't think I know anybody who is happy with the 020 I am Running 020s f/r at 42 psi, plenty feel and better wet grip than the '57s. Also a nicer feel when leaning over into corners. Too soon to comment on wear as the rear has only been on for a few hundred miles. I believe the 020 is the replacement for the BT57. There is a special version for the XX, however my dealer fits "regular" 020s to Birds (such as mine) with no reported problems. The 010 is designed for lighter, less powerful bikes, so may be unsuitable for use on the rear of bikes such as ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Nik, get the fuck out of the Garage and back in the Pub!!!!!! I know I know... VERY unfamiliar territory in here... Mith... You could be right... My set up or riding skills could be to blame... I'm not sure.. I also thought maybe its just too much air pressure. I always run 42 42 since the tires seem to last the longest and wear the best at that level. Lately I've been trying to be more focused on keeping the weight distribution proper in a corner by slightly cracking open the throttle... Just seems like my rear tire slips ALOT on me in turns. I'm looking forward to when Maxx comes down, cause he's almost my weight and assuredly 3x the rider I am and he can ride my bike and tell me if its me, or the setup. Jerry came up and rode my bike one day, but not for long, and also, he's probably 80 or 90 pounds lighter than I, he said he thought my suspension felt great... but like I said... he's much lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithrandir Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 LOL. Hey, that's TWICE you've been in here now Nik. What's happening? Is the world coming to an end? :poke: OK. That's cool. I just like to know why people don't like certain tyres. Usually helps if they can enumerate the problems. As for pressure, 42 is way too high on the front. 36-38 you want. I only run 36 on the BTs and my XX riding is mainly Interstate droning. Slipping on the back, sounds like you may be trying to open the throttle too early, or too hard, in the corners. The other thing might be riding style - are you sitting straight up on the bike or hanging off a bit as you go through the corner? If you don't hang off, and then crack the throttle open, it can lead to the rear end going walkabout on you. I ride very much like my race style- climbing all over the bike, and I've not had the rear end break loose on me on this bike (my old 97 XX did though, but I was less experienced then) and I've been riding quite hard in the wet (Hwy 101 from SF to Astoria, in pouring rain and still averaging 70mph....) Oh... one other thing I've just thought of - do you still have the stock shock on there? If so, with your weight that could be a big cause of it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimXX Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Hi XXers, My bike came with Macadam 90s and after 4000 km I still have most of those little nipples sticking out of the tire. This is even after marking the tire to about 8mm [1/4"] from the edge. The bike seems to handle fine, though I am more a sport tourer than canyon carver [i am definitely paranoid enough about road surface and street vagaries to give myself maybe too much escape insurance]. I know stock tires are politically incorrect, but these 90s may take until 6000 km before they even wear the nipples off. TimXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithrandir Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Oh, Macadams 90s *shudder*.... I had those on a ZX6R that I rode across Oz. Worst tyres I ever rode on. Slippery, slimey feel to them when cold (more than once I spun them up on partial throttle exiting a corner, with very little lean on), and took forever to heat up, even after dropping the pressures dramatically. Maybe work better on the bigger bikes where the weight will help warm them up, but on mid-range bikes like the 6R, they're attrocious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 LOL. Hey, that's TWICE you've been in here now Nik. What's happening? Is the world coming to an end? SHHHHHHH someone's going to notice... OK. That's cool. I just like to know why people don't like certain tyres. Usually helps if they can enumerate the problems. I'm glad you asked because once or twice someone said the 57s were shit, so I kinda just wrote off the rear-slippage as the tire... As for pressure, 42 is way too high on the front. 36-38 you want. I only run 36 on the BTs and my XX riding is mainly Interstate droning. What pressure would you run on the back? Slipping on the back, sounds like you may be trying to open the throttle too early, or too hard, in the corners. hmmm.... Too early maybe... too hard... almost assuredly not. The other thing might be riding style - are you sitting straight up on the bike or hanging off a bit as you go through the corner? If you don't hang off, and then crack the throttle open, it can lead to the rear end going walkabout on you. I use to hang off... Then when I lost confidence in my rear-end, in addition to getting rear-ended, I started playing the mental game of trying to ride more conservatively. I stopped hanging off because 'not' hanging off was my gut reaction to riding a little more conservatively in corners. Oh... one other thing I've just thought of - do you still have the stock shock on there? If so, with your weight that could be a big cause of it.. Yes... Stock rear shock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XX Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 between the 010, 020 and bt57 for touring and commuter mileage, my experience is that the choice would be bt57's but be sure to get the ones with the little letter at the end, specific oem to our bikes! the 010 and 020 fronts have just been a big let down :cry: but others on the list have had different experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithrandir Posted May 24, 2003 Share Posted May 24, 2003 What pressure would you run on the back? I run whatever max pressure is for the tyre. In the BT case, 42. That's generally because I'm doing LD riding, not twisties. When the corners come up (like I'm going to be riding 101 back from SF), I drop back to 33/36. Basically gives the tyres a chance to really heat up and grip better. But, I'm also a shitload lighter than you too, and that means you'd probably not want to drop down quite that low because extra weight means more sidewall flex, meaning more heat and quicker distruction. Yes... Stock rear shock... Not that I've seen you ride or the condition of your tyres, but here's my gut-feel to why you have the sensation of slipping tyres. I'm also making one educated guess - number of miles on your bike. From what I remember, it has about 20K miles on the clock? The stock setup for the bike is a guy around 160lb. With your weight, you're really taxing the rear end of the bike, even if you've upped the preload a long way. As you accelerate out of the corners, a multitude of things happen to the suspension of the bike. One of those is that the weight transfer heads backwards. As power comes through the drivetrain, the rear of the bike squats. Because of your high weight (relative to what the suspension settings are), and your sitting upright on the bike, a lot more weight goes to the rear and the suspension just takes it all on the chin. It's just not capable, and so you get an almost completely compressed rear suspension - ie at its maximum upwards travel. So your first feeling is that of the rear of the bike sagging really quickly. The second feeling is once the bike is there, it cannot deal any further with the road surface. Any bump cannot be absorbed because your suspension is already at its limits in one direction. When it's like that, it will tend to skip around on the road quite a bit because now, instead of the suspension dealing with most of the road surface, your tyres are having to do all the work. They can't cope as well, and so it feels like the rear is moving around a lot, because it is - the tyres, particularly the sidewalls, are flexing huge amounts. As a mental image, think about the bike hitting a big positive-shaped bump. As the rear wheel hits, it has to track over the object. The initial reaction is in the sidewalls as they flex to cope. Next, the sidewalls unload some of that compression to the rim, which means a direct line to your suspension. The springs, because they are already almost completely compressed from your weight and the weight transfer from the slow acceleration through the corner have nowhere to go. That force now has to go somewhere - meaning straight through the frame and into your butt. So now you have the entire bike and rider moving away from the bump - that's around 400 odd pound (other half of the weight is on the front wheel). Somewhere about now, gravity kicks in and wants to return the bike back to the road surface. The first thing that happens is that the spring pushes the swingarm and wheel away from the rest of the bike (it being the lighter of the two masses so does the most movement). The wheel maintains traction with the road, basically. A few tenths of a second later, the rest of the bike's mass decides to follow suit. The spring is still mainly compressed (we're assuming a relatively small-ish bump here) so you have about 400lbs of bike and rider heading towards the roadway surface. The spring will attempt to take the incoming mass, but because it is already at its limits, it will completely compress until there is no more travel left. If it hasn't stopped the movement of the bike by this point (almost guaranteed it hasn't), then something has to! That movement now translates into the swingarm being forced to move, which obviously means the tyres now also have to cope. So the tyres flex. If you were going straight down the road, that would translate into sidewall flex. Both would bulge fairly evenly, so you'd not notice anything too drastic. But, you're leaned over in the corner. Suddenly the forces are no longer directly along the sidewalls, but actually at an angle. You also have a shear effect from the torque of the acceleration, so the sidewalls will tend to flex in some random sideways direction. Now because you have this almost direct link between the tyres and your butt (everythings compressed, remember) that flex feels like the tyre is slipping on the road. It's even worse than just a basic slide because the sidewalls will be moving all over the place trying to cope with the load, the road surface and the accelaration, not just in a single direction. That feels like the rear of the bike is moving all over the road, when it probably isn't. But, push it just a tad further and the sidewalls can no longer deal with the flex, and the rear of the bike will break loose. Now as a contributor to this is the shock itself. I'd say the damping is probably fucked, or getting close to it. A heavy load on the shocks, particularly with wrong spring weight, means the valving, seals etc inside the shock, not to mention the fluid itself, is going to die rapidly. That's not just something with your weight, but with any rider that is carrying a lot of wieght on the bike like a pillion, bags etc. When the damping is shot, that means the bike wriggles around a lot more because now you have purely spring and sidewalls of the tyre absorbing bumps. So the bigger bumps now induce a lot of extra movement, compounding the above situation. More movement means more forces end up being directly applied to the tyres. A good way to tell if your shock is shot internally is to pay attention to how it rides over the course of a single ride. A really shot one will actually make horrible squishing/gas sounds if you bounce on it while sitting still. One that is on its way out will change damping characteristics as you ride. For example, does the bike feel ok when you first get on it and as you hit the first few corners and then start feeling like it is slipping as you get further into the riding? If you back off the corners for a while and do a straight stretch, does it seem to firm up again, only to deteriorate as you hit the next set of corners? If so, then you have to get the shock rebuilt/replaced. As a guide, aftermarket shock manufacturers recommend servicing the shock every 18K mi or so (25K kilometers, so I think that's the right conversion). That involves replacing the oil, regassing etc. That's for shocks with all the goodies like remote resoviours that help prevent the oil from getting cooked. On a stock shock like the blackbird has, where there is no such features, think of what that does to it internally (not to mention much smaller body, meaning less oil, and greater heat build-up). I've seen Honda(Showa) shocks that have trashed themselves under 4000km from a brand-new bike (two VFRs and a VTR), so large mileage is not necessarily a pre-condition for the shock to be stuffed. Given all the info you've provide, I really think the next thing you should spend your money on for improving the XX is to fit a properly setup aftermarket shock on there (it's not really possible to rebuild the stock shocks, but you might be able to just fit a spring). I think the feelings you are getting now from the tyres will still be around regardless of what brand/model of tyre you put on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.