JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I have been working on wrapping up the Turbo XX after installing a different motor with a thicker head gasket in it. The bike is a 2001, the motor is from a 99XX. The motor ran fine before disassemble and install of .075 head gasket. Motor was placed back in the bike and set for the least 4-5 months. I have been hooking it all up, minus the turbo to make sure the motor was running fine before re-installing the turbo. It has a stock header and mufflers for testing purposes. I can get the bike to idle at around 900rpm only if I hold the throttle wide open. I have verified the plug wires. I pulled the colder turbo plugs, they were wet with fuel. I installed a set of iridiums I had and the bike didnt do any better. I have checked and double checked all the connections I can find. I took a bunch of pictures with hopes someone can just spot an issue or have me check something else. One other odd thing...the temp and fuel guages stay flashing after I turn the key on. The temp guage flashes 270, the fuel guage flashes like it is empty, but it has at least a gallon in the tank. Could something be causing it not to run because it thinks the temp is too high? Does it shut down if it thinks it has overheated? Stan and I have talked, I hope I dont have to pull the valve cover back off and check the timing...or worse find out the valves are bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 I unplugged the temperature sensor, it fixed the flashing temp guage on the dash. When the temp sensor was unhooked, it would not run at all. The FI light would flash as I tried to start it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I'd swap ECU's just on principle. Gotta get some more definitive diagnostics, and that's easier than a compression test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Does it "idle" really rough? Check that the cams aren't out by 180 degrees. Don't ask me how I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 I switched ECU Joe, no change Tim...it won't "idle" you must open the throttle at least half way to get it to run at all. Open the throttle all the way and it stays at 900-1000 rpm. The temp guage shows 270 and is flashing The FI light was dimly glowing all the time with the 00 ECU, and still flashing twice about every 15 seconds while it struggled to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Tim...it won't "idle" you must open the throttle at least half way to get it to run at all. Open the throttle all the way and it stays at 900-1000 rpm. Idle was your word, thus the quotes. If you've spoken to Stan, he's probably already given you better advice than I can. It sounds to me like you've got some electrical gremlins to chase down- but the (non)running issue sounds like timing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Does it "idle" really rough? Check that the cams aren't out by 180 degrees. Don't ask me how I know... I tried swapping the coils out to run the motor 180 off, it didnt run at all like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Does the XX have a "limp mode" when it has overheated? The temp sensor pegs out at 270 when hooked up, when unhooked, it wouldnt start at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I tried swapping the coils out to run the motor 180 off, it didnt run at all like that. Not sure how effective that would be on an injected bike unless you could somehow switch the timing on the injectors as well. But I've been drinking, so even if it's obvious it'd go right by me at the moment. Best advice I can give you right now is to listen to whatever Stan tells you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 I tried swapping the coils out to run the motor 180 off, it didnt run at all like that. Not sure how effective that would be on an injected bike unless you could somehow switch the timing on the injectors as well. But I've been drinking, so even if it's obvious it'd go right by me at the moment. Best advice I can give you right now is to listen to whatever Stan tells you. Good points...The FI probably fires just before the intake stroke.. Stan may help it get running, but it will have at least four wheels and sand tires on it before we are finished. But I've been drinking, so even if it's obvious it'd go right by me at the moment. That is part of my problem, I havent had a drink in six weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 That is part of my problem, I havent had a drink in six weeks. That's easily fixed.............. As far as the engine, let me think for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You know the injector thing might be right, it does strike a cord. I am pretty sure your gonna have to pull the valve cover... It(the cams) has to be out 180....and the coil thing would not work if the injectors were timed 180 off....I think.. you can do it, I have faith.. Does the XX have a "limp mode" when it has overheated? The temp sensor pegs out at 270 when hooked up, when unhooked, it wouldnt start at all. that just ain't right, well something is causing it to be wrong, and it ain't heat. You go something hooked up wrong. Gotta be. I have verified the plug wires. I pulled the colder turbo plugs, they were wet with fuel. I installed a set of iridiums I had and the bike didnt do any better. It ain't firing at the right time, according to the valves....or it would burn the fuel off. working here!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 and if it wasnt firing at the right time it would be heating up fast??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 and if it wasnt firing at the right time it would be heating up fast??? If it is really that hot, then we really have other problems. Like water.... You ain't run it that long right? and if it wasnt firing at the right time it would be heating up fast??? If it is really that hot, then we really have other problems. Like water.... You ain't run it that long right? and yes if it really is that hot, it should be not running on purpose. I have had mine hot enough to puke coolant and still run, good enough to back to the trailer. Never that hot. I was thinking that it was saying hot when it was cold really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 It can't overheat that fast. If you have an air bubble trapped near the sensor, it may show an overheat, but the engine itself isn't overheated. The engine will run with the injectors out of time. Hell, it will run if you spray gas in the air intake....how sensitive would it be to injector timing...especially at lower rpm. Compression test and check cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Who is looking for a weekend in Indiana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I ain't doing anything,,,, was thinking about this instead of sleeping and I think you need to change out the temp sensor first. This is a different motor than the one that was in it. Pull the sensors out of the motor that lost the ring one by one starting with the temp sensor, because it looks to be the first indicator. I can't believe it would stop it from starting but you say it does, so that first. Next we are going to have to check the cam timing, all there is to it. We don't know anything about this motor? Didn't you get this somewhere else and have no history of it running? Or is this from the quad frame? I still think you got something connected to the wrong place. Temp for sure. Unplug everything. And start over with what you can tell has to go together, one by one. Call when you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I have been working on wrapping up the Turbo XX after installing a different motor with a thicker head gasket in it. The bike is a 2001, the motor is from a 99XX. The motor ran fine before disassemble and install of .075 head gasket. Motor was placed back in the bike and set for the least 4-5 months. I have been hooking it all up, minus the turbo to make sure the motor was running fine before re-installing the turbo. It has a stock header and mufflers for testing purposes. I can get the bike to idle at around 900rpm only if I hold the throttle wide open. I have verified the plug wires. I pulled the colder turbo plugs, they were wet with fuel. I installed a set of iridiums I had and the bike didnt do any better. I have checked and double checked all the connections I can find. I took a bunch of pictures with hopes someone can just spot an issue or have me check something else. One other odd thing...the temp and fuel guages stay flashing after I turn the key on. The temp guage flashes 270, the fuel guage flashes like it is empty, but it has at least a gallon in the tank. Could something be causing it not to run because it thinks the temp is too high? Does it shut down if it thinks it has overheated? Stan and I have talked, I hope I dont have to pull the valve cover back off and check the timing...or worse find out the valves are bent. I haven't looked, but is it possible you have the connectors swapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 One other odd thing...the temp and fuel guages stay flashing after I turn the key on. I haven't looked, but is it possible you have the connectors swapped? I kinda wonder if maybe either of those two sensors corroded while sitting around waiting to be reassembled, but especially the water temp sensor. It's supposed to read some kind of resistance, but if it is shorted, it might freak out the ECU, since it refused to start at all when the circuit was open (unplugged). When I talked to Stan this morning, he also mentioned that checking the big wire-harness connectors attached to the frame for corrosion might not be a bad idea, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 One other odd thing...the temp and fuel guages stay flashing after I turn the key on. I haven't looked, but is it possible you have the connectors swapped? I kinda wonder if maybe either of those two sensors corroded while sitting around waiting to be reassembled, but especially the water temp sensor. It's supposed to read some kind of resistance, but if it is shorted, it might freak out the ECU, since it refused to start at all when the circuit was open (unplugged). When I talked to Stan this morning, he also mentioned that checking the big wire-harness connectors attached to the frame for corrosion might not be a bad idea, either. I did loosen them to add the PC3 ground in there. It is tightened up now but may have caused a problem. I will clean that tonight, swap out the temp sensors and report later tonight. The manual says you can damage the temp sensor when testing it...?? In the mean time, I am at work and meeting with the union president about grievances. I ain't doing anything,,,, was thinking about this instead of sleeping and I think you need to change out the temp sensor first. This is a different motor than the one that was in it. Pull the sensors out of the motor that lost the ring one by one starting with the temp sensor, because it looks to be the first indicator. I can't believe it would stop it from starting but you say it does, so that first. Next we are going to have to check the cam timing, all there is to it. We don't know anything about this motor? Didn't you get this somewhere else and have no history of it running? Or is this from the quad frame? I still think you got something connected to the wrong place. Temp for sure. Unplug everything. And start over with what you can tell has to go together, one by one. Call when you can. This motor came out of the quad frame. It does nice burnouts....ran fine before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 A good starting point is to assume only one thing is wrong. It is of course possible that there are many faults. bit typically in this sort of case you just goofed up one thing. Since the gauges are showing problems when it first turns on, I have to believe that the ECU operation is at the root of your problem, not cams or valves. A single bad sensor should set you into limphome mode, your bike is much below that level. The air temp sensor would not cause the symptoms described. The best starting point is checking that you have good power and ground to the ECU harness. Did you reconnect the two green wires under the tank lip? After verifying that connection, I would use a test light, NOT a DVM, to verify that power AND ground are good at the ECU. A DVM can show voltage even when there is a poor connection, a light bulb will confirm the connection is sound enough to conduct the necessary current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 In the mean time, I am at work and meeting with the union president about grievances. Whee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 Last meeting was called off, going to the garage in a few minutes. Updates later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 My eyes are getting bad, and I can't read the schemetics without a magnifying glass. But I have two sets of prints in my service manual. One for before 99, one for after. You say the engine ran good ( in the quad?). Did the quad have a 99 harness? Didn't the 99 have analog speedo and temp gauge? Which harness did you wire the bike with? Just one wire difference from the 99 and 01 could cause strange feedback. Just a thought, I would photocopy both schemetics, ENLARGED in my case and look for differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 My eyes are getting bad, and I can't read the schemetics without a magnifying glass. But I have two sets of prints in my service manual. One for before 99, one for after. You say the engine ran good ( in the quad?). Did the quad have a 99 harness? Didn't the 99 have analog speedo and temp gauge? Which harness did you wire the bike with? Just one wire difference from the 99 and 01 could cause strange feedback. Just a thought, I would photocopy both schemetics, ENLARGED in my case and look for differences. I am kinda going that way too, in that the ecm is different between the years and the break is in the 01 02 area, I know the 02 is different than the 2000 for sure, and that might be the problem. But, I have a complete 2002 wiring harness and ecm on a 2000 motor and sensors. The temp sensor was changed when I put the digital gauges on. But, that was all. So that might be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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