SLyFoXX Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I'll give some history and where I am at now and not sure where to turn. Over the winter at some point I started to smell fuel and noticed fuel leak, very small amount did not think much about it at the time. Took the XX for an update map on the bike when shop reminded me that I had a leak and appeared to be the gasket seal between the tank and the fuel pump and ordered one. I put the thing on and could not get it to maintain the seal, pissed off (thinking I can't get this thing to seal) and took it to the shop and told them to put the thing on. Well next day leaking again. Fuck - ordered another seal just to make sure had them put it on, get a call on Yesterday that all looks good will look at it over night and see whats up. Today in the AM no leak! great finally, shop said they would take it out for a stress test, oh a test ride too see if any leaks appear. Sure as shit fucking think is leaking again. Both the shop and I are lost on what to do next, first thought is it the tank or the fuel pump. If anyone has a fuel pump hanging around that I could use as a test to attempt to help eliminate problems before I go an spend $$$$ on pump or a fucking tank... Any other idea's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 The pump sealing surface is hopefully easy to check for flatness, using a straightedge. After eliminating that surface, check the tank for cracking in the sheet metal around the hole. I suspect the previous checks will show nothing, and the problem is likely then a subtle distortion of the sheet metal between the studs that mount the pump. If so, you might get away with using two gaskets stacked together, not normally a good idea but this is not a pressure application. Also look very closely at the studs to see if any have been tweaked, that would be the most likely way to distort the mounting flange area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Are you sure that's not an Aprilia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 High pressure hose,that one between the tank and fuel rail, failed on my XX.Do pressure test,power up fuel pump and see if it leaks. New hose is about,don`t remember,60 bucks,but old one can be rebuild.End fittings from the old hose can be reused,high pressure fuel hose from auto part store,couple of clamps,etc,,,,,,,5$ total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyFoXX Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Are you sure that's not an Aprilia? I thought the same thing, but she does not have that golden glow High pressure hose,that one between the tank and fuel rail, failed on my XX.Do pressure test,power up fuel pump and see if it leaks. New hose is about,don`t remember,60 bucks,but old one can be rebuild.End fittings from the old hose can be reused,high pressure fuel hose from auto part store,couple of clamps,etc,,,,,,,5$ total. the leak appears to be coming from (as you sit on the bike and the tank is still on the bike) on the back side of the fuel pump on the left side - like 11:00 still think a new hose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 If you start the bike with the tank propped up, the hose is entirely visible. It is easy to see, and if your leak is there, as Tomek says you can get automotive hose ( special for EFI ) that will work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyFoXX Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 If you start the bike with the tank propped up, the hose is entirely visible. It is easy to see, and if your leak is there, as Tomek says you can get automotive hose ( special for EFI ) that will work fine. I have had the tank up and the bike running, no apparent leak but then you will see drips coming from the rear side of the edge of the fuel pump and tank.. the double gasket seal may work but I'd like to fix the problem vs just making work... something about fuel and hot motor between my legs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 If I remember correctly, if overtightened it will bend the tank, and leak. Should be visible, and repairable, by sliding a sleeve over the stud, and with a backup socket and anvil inside,,,,, tap the sleeve, so the stud is recessed, below the seal surface, and torque correctly. Tight is bad in this case. But, I also have had a leak in my fuel line. Replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyFoXX Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 If I remember correctly, if overtightened it will bend the tank, and leak. Should be visible, and repairable, by sliding a sleeve over the stud, and with a backup socket and anvil inside,,,,, tap the sleeve, so the stud is recessed, below the seal surface, and torque correctly. Tight is bad in this case. But, I also have had a leak in my fuel line. Replace it. OK, I think - the leak started before the fuel pump ever was removed. I am not following on how to repair if indeed it is bent but then I can be dangerous and are you saying replace the fuel line just in case and it a easy inexpensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 If I remember correctly, if overtightened it will bend the tank, and leak. Should be visible, and repairable, by sliding a sleeve over the stud, and with a backup socket and anvil inside,,,,, tap the sleeve, so the stud is recessed, below the seal surface, and torque correctly. Tight is bad in this case. But, I also have had a leak in my fuel line. Replace it. OK, I think - the leak started before the fuel pump ever was removed. I am not following on how to repair if indeed it is bent but then I can be dangerous and are you saying replace the fuel line just in case and it a easy inexpensive? The fuel line on mine leaked when I pulled on it, running. Would slowly seep without pressure. I took some klenix to find some wetness. Could smell it though. The flange that the pump mounts to in the tank has bolts built into it. To take the pump off, you take the nuts off them. Take the pump off and the gasket. I need to look but, sometimes there is a ring inside to reinforce the metal, to make it thicker, stronger. But, if over torqued, or loaded to much, like pulling on the line, fuel line, can tweek it. Take the pump and gasket out, and put the pump back in and see if it seals around without the gasket. Needs to be almost light free. Should match good. When you tighten it back together, you should do it in a star pattern, and even, and a little at a time. Go all the way around just seating. One thing that I find is that 1/4 turn from seated to tight is a good rule of thumb. you have to mark it to know. But, what I am trying to get across is to turn the nuts in a star pattern a little at a time till it is turned 1/4 turn after seated. Usually that equals the required torque. I am going to look at the tank I have an be back in a few... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Ok,,,I was all wrong,,,, derrrr. The sealing surface is a lip in the metal of the tank, right at the inside of the hole. Being that it is rolled into the metal it gets its strength from the roll. The bolts are in a ring that is welded to the tank on the outside. Gasket is cut out for the bolts. So they don't compress the gasket. and they stop the gasket from being compressed any more once they are tight. Where it leaks, or looks like it leaks may not be the leak location. That inside lip that it seals against the gasket, may not be the problem. The back side of the gasket, against the pump, may be the problem. Got to be clean bare metal and flat. Good gasket so it should be soft enough,,new one. The lip maybe lost it's lip...should be a little above the surface. Once it is compressed to much it may not return to seal. If everything is perfectly clean and a new gasket, and tightened to the correct torque, and still leaks, that lip is where I would start. Need to get it back up..to tension against the gasket tighter. Me I would really have to think about how I would work it. Can't do it with some pliers. Really needs to be pushed from inside evenly all the way around, at the same time. Going to take a fabricated piece to do that. You might be able to shim the backside, between the pump and gasket to take up the space that the lip is bent. It might work with two gaskets. But, I don't think you want that much thickness. Just a little. Or it is the line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOXXIC Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Crush washer in the banjo bolt, high pressure fuel line fitting? About $0.10/each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It sounds to me like you have a flatness issue with the sealing surfaces. I'm with the guy that said, double up the gaskets and be done with it. There is nothing half assed about that approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyFoXX Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 It sounds to me like you have a flatness issue with the sealing surfaces. I'm with the guy that said, double up the gaskets and be done with it. There is nothing half assed about that approach. For $10 and it works your right it sure as hell is worth a try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It sounds to me like you have a flatness issue with the sealing surfaces. I'm with the guy that said, double up the gaskets and be done with it. There is nothing half assed about that approach. For $10 and it works your right it sure as hell is worth a try... I got to say that I would not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Dibs on the old fuel pump if you end up buying a new one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyFoXX Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 It sounds to me like you have a flatness issue with the sealing surfaces. I'm with the guy that said, double up the gaskets and be done with it. There is nothing half assed about that approach. For $10 and it works your right it sure as hell is worth a try... I got to say that I would not. The local shop did not recommend this either... They believe it is the fuel pump, Toynut has an extra that he is sending to me, THANK YOU soo much, and we can give that a test to see if that solves the problem.. if not well see. Dibs on the old fuel pump if you end up buying a new one! Yours.... Reach around????? Ok,,,I was all wrong,,,, derrrr. The sealing surface is a lip in the metal of the tank, right at the inside of the hole. Being that it is rolled into the metal it gets its strength from the roll. The bolts are in a ring that is welded to the tank on the outside. Gasket is cut out for the bolts. So they don't compress the gasket. and they stop the gasket from being compressed any more once they are tight. Where it leaks, or looks like it leaks may not be the leak location. That inside lip that it seals against the gasket, may not be the problem. The back side of the gasket, against the pump, may be the problem. Got to be clean bare metal and flat. Good gasket so it should be soft enough,,new one. The lip maybe lost it's lip...should be a little above the surface. Once it is compressed to much it may not return to seal. If everything is perfectly clean and a new gasket, and tightened to the correct torque, and still leaks, that lip is where I would start. Need to get it back up..to tension against the gasket tighter. Me I would really have to think about how I would work it. Can't do it with some pliers. Really needs to be pushed from inside evenly all the way around, at the same time. Going to take a fabricated piece to do that. You might be able to shim the backside, between the pump and gasket to take up the space that the lip is bent. It might work with two gaskets. But, I don't think you want that much thickness. Just a little. Or it is the line... The tank still has the lip, so that seems good - I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccriderXX Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 High pressure hose,that one between the tank and fuel rail, failed on my XX.Do pressure test,power up fuel pump and see if it leaks. +1 on the hose. I don't know if it is what is causing your leak though Steve. I replaced my hose. I think it got damaged while lifting the tank and pulling on the hose. My hose just barely weeped, but I didn't trust it so replaced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I'd dry everything off, reassemble, then put baby powder or baking flour all over the bottom of the pump, near where the pump mounts to the tank, pressure hose, all that crap. The instant it leaks you will be able to pinpoint where and how bad. This will make it MUCH easier to correctly diagnose it. Then you can either shop vac it up or put an air hose too it (as long as you are outside, because otherwise it will go everywhere!) There is no sense in buying parts you don't need. I can tell you this though, from experience. I've had the pumps out of the tanks on my street bird and my drag bird probably 5 times each, and I've never replaced that seal. I have put a fuel hose on my street bird though, and it turns out it was just the crimp had come loose. I had it re-crimped, and it is now the one on my drag bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Then you can either shop vac it up or put an air hose too it (as long as you are outside, because otherwise it will go everywhere!) There is no sense in buying parts you don't need. Please do not ever, ever, every use any vacuum around flamable materials. Not only does that big plastic canister generate alot of static, the electric motor has alot of sparks going on too. I know of someone that blew their face off doing something very similar. Kinda thing you'd never expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toynut Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Steve, I have a fuel hose assembly coming your way as well. At the very least, it should help you test another possibility. Make sure you install new washers and a fresh gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Make sure you install new washers and a fresh gasket. In a pinch, brake crush washers will work if you can't get fuel ones. Just use a dremel to hog them out a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyFoXX Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Make sure you install new washers and a fresh gasket. In a pinch, brake crush washers will work if you can't get fuel ones. Just use a dremel to hog them out a little bit. thanks, do you think I need a new gasket since it is only 1 week old and maybe 2 weeks by the time I get to it again?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Make sure you install new washers and a fresh gasket. In a pinch, brake crush washers will work if you can't get fuel ones. Just use a dremel to hog them out a little bit. thanks, do you think I need a new gasket since it is only 1 week old and maybe 2 weeks by the time I get to it again?? Put an eyeball on any parts that are almost new. You might be able to reuse them. With the leak, though, I'd be real careful about reusing the gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALCXX Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Steve, you say it leaked after the test ride? Tims suggestion of another crush washer is cheap and Furbirds baby powder method may pinpoint the leak? If you decide to check it with a Bic, can I have your port/polished head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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