lexxus Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I was just thinking about all the threads i see on removing the flies from Busa's And 14"s. Is this something we can do with the bird? I haven't heard or read anything about doing so. And maybe to answer my own question, Nope... is why. :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Never saw no flies on my Bird but on those stinky 14's and Busa's, that's a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X1rider Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 The butterflies you are referring to are part of the secondary (top end power) fuel injection system. The Double X has no such system. Why would you remove them anyway? They are there for a reason-rideability. Bottom end, mid range and top end are all well served by millions of dollars of R&D for a well rounded, long life product. Back yard engineering is fine if you only want top end power, but where do you spend most of you time riding? Maybe different on a race bike, but for a street bike, I would leave well enough alone and upgrade suspension and brakes. The available power is more than enough if you control it correctly and get it to the ground. Of course, as Roger Penske once said: There is no substitute for cubic inches. Given that, if you really want more power, the biggest motor available is the way to go. I currently have 52000+ miles on my 02 and it runs like a watch. Motor is bone stock, no problems with it at all, except for that pesky stator....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 A less cunty answer is that the ZX14 and C14 both have essentially a second set of throttle plates that are computer-controlled so that they only open above ~5000 rpm. The idea is that it keeps the monster engine manageable until you're ready to really open it up. They did this because half the squids that bought one because it was the biggest and baddest available would kill themselves otherwise with the low-end torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexxus Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 Thanks guys. And oh yeah, no more late nite drinking.Blurp! sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWL_XX Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Thanks guys. And oh yeah, no more late nite drinking.Blurp! sorry It's the early morning drinking you have to be careful of.. 1am to 4am.. (7:30 am is OK Dave!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 The butterflies you are referring to are part of the secondary (top end power) fuel injection system. The Double X has no such system. Why would you remove them anyway? They are there for a reason-rideability. Bottom end, mid range and top end are all well served by millions of dollars of R&D for a well rounded, long life product. Back yard engineering is fine if you only want top end power, but where do you spend most of you time riding? Maybe different on a race bike, but for a street bike, I would leave well enough alone and upgrade suspension and brakes. The available power is more than enough if you control it correctly and get it to the ground. Of course, as Roger Penske once said: There is no substitute for cubic inches. Given that, if you really want more power, the biggest motor available is the way to go. I currently have 52000+ miles on my 02 and it runs like a watch. Motor is bone stock, no problems with it at all, except for that pesky stator....... Spoken like a man who has never ridden a 14 with the flies in and then tried it with the flies out. They've also got nothing to do with "top end power fuel injection". Matter of fact, that's exactly where they're irrelevant. They limit air intake, and thus power, at lower RPMs. Where do you spend most of your time riding? Low to mid range. Why the hell would you pay for a 1400cc bike that acts like a 1000? I like some grunt in my large displacement motors, buh-bye flies. Only reason I see to leave them in is if you're dragging it (easier to launch) or if you're so ham fisted you can't control a bit of torque down low on the street. Removing the flies improves rideability for anyone except a complete newb, as it makes the power nice and linear from about 2500 RPM right up to redline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X1rider Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 The butterflies you are referring to are part of the secondary (top end power) fuel injection system. The Double X has no such system. Why would you remove them anyway? They are there for a reason-rideability. Bottom end, mid range and top end are all well served by millions of dollars of R&D for a well rounded, long life product. Back yard engineering is fine if you only want top end power, but where do you spend most of you time riding? Maybe different on a race bike, but for a street bike, I would leave well enough alone and upgrade suspension and brakes. The available power is more than enough if you control it correctly and get it to the ground. Of course, as Roger Penske once said: There is no substitute for cubic inches. Given that, if you really want more power, the biggest motor available is the way to go. I currently have 52000+ miles on my 02 and it runs like a watch. Motor is bone stock, no problems with it at all, except for that pesky stator....... Spoken like a man who has never ridden a 14 with the flies in and then tried it with the flies out. They've also got nothing to do with "top end power fuel injection". Matter of fact, that's exactly where they're irrelevant. They limit air intake, and thus power, at lower RPMs. Where do you spend most of your time riding? Low to mid range. Why the hell would you pay for a 1400cc bike that acts like a 1000? I like some grunt in my large displacement motors, buh-bye flies. Only reason I see to leave them in is if you're dragging it (easier to launch) or if you're so ham fisted you can't control a bit of torque down low on the street. Removing the flies improves rideability for anyone except a complete newb, as it makes the power nice and linear from about 2500 RPM right up to redline. Oh well, I am just an OEM guy that doesn't want to fool with stuff and keep the reliability intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 It's a Kawasaki, it's going to break anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X1rider Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 It's a Kawasaki, it's going to break, anyway. ROTFL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Why the hell would you pay for a 1400cc bike that acts like a 1000? cough...cough 1352cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I had a ZX-14 and now have a Concours 14 and have driven them without the flies. Eh, no biggie. I actually agree with you X1Rider. It's a sport touring bike and the way they made it IMO is just fine. People do have problems with the bike after taking them out, and people are snapping the bolts trying to get them out and some other issues on top of that. Hey, whatever floats your boat but I can say that the bike is linear, smooth, and perfect right out of the box. If I wanted a ZX-14, I would have bought one....Oh, wait....I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I had a ZX-14 and now have a Concours 14 and have driven them without the flies. Eh, no biggie. I actually agree with you X1Rider. It's a sport touring bike and the way they made it IMO is just fine. People do have problems with the bike after taking them out, and people are snapping the bolts trying to get them out and some other issues on top of that. People also manage to fuck up oil changes. Anyone who had problems with the process itself or their bikes after removing them should probably sell their tools. Hey, whatever floats your boat but I can say that the bike is linear, smooth, and perfect right out of the box. You're was an '08, right? Flies open sooner, most agreed it was an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I had a ZX-14 and now have a Concours 14 and have driven them without the flies. Eh, no biggie. I actually agree with you X1Rider. It's a sport touring bike and the way they made it IMO is just fine. People do have problems with the bike after taking them out, and people are snapping the bolts trying to get them out and some other issues on top of that. People also manage to fuck up oil changes. Anyone who had problems with the process itself or their bikes after removing them should probably sell their tools. Hey, whatever floats your boat but I can say that the bike is linear, smooth, and perfect right out of the box. You're was an '08, right? Flies open sooner, most agreed it was an improvement. Yeah, just sell the tools. Yep, 08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoungesq Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 People do have problems with the bike after taking them out, and people are snapping the bolts trying to get them out and some other issues on top of that. Apparently the guys at the Kawi factory used real soft screws and gobs of locktite to hold the butterflies in. You gotta heat up your #2 phillips screwdriver till its red-hot, hold it on the screw for 30 to 40 seconds to melt the locktite & then back em out real careful. Its almost like they knew people were gonna try it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 People do have problems with the bike after taking them out, and people are snapping the bolts trying to get them out and some other issues on top of that. Apparently the guys at the Kawi factory used real soft screws and gobs of locktite to hold the butterflies in. You gotta heat up your #2 phillips screwdriver till its red-hot, hold it on the screw for 30 to 40 seconds to melt the locktite & then back em out real careful. Its almost like they knew people were gonna try it Fresh #2 phillips (I bought two news ones specifically for the job), tap with hammer, out they come. I had to put a soldering iron on one of them for about ten seconds to get it out. The key is to stop fucking turning if the bit starts slipping. Once you chew up the head it's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I used a micro torch on each one and they came out like butter... Makes the Connie14 feel just like the XX, with more torque and shaft drive.. Can't wait to start mine again...friggin Kawasaki!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I used a micro torch on each one and they came out like butter... Makes the Connie14 feel just like the XX, with more torque and shaft drive.. Can't wait to start mine again...friggin Kawasaki!!!! Did it seriously make a noticeable difference for you removing them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 It's a Kawasaki, it's going to break anyway. +1 :icon_lol: :icon_lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I used a micro torch on each one and they came out like butter... Makes the Connie14 feel just like the XX, with more torque and shaft drive.. Can't wait to start mine again...friggin Kawasaki!!!! Did it seriously make a noticeable difference for you removing them? I rode an '06 ZX-14 with flies removed. Total beast power down low (and everywhere else) with the flies removed. I'm sure the C14 would yield similar results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 With the flies in I felt the need to constantly downshift in turns to keep the revs higher, so I could get the bike to pull out of the corner. The flies out fixxed that. The bike was just about boring from idle to 6k rpm before pulling them out. After pulling them, it gave me the same rush that the XX would give...with a boatload of torque, ABS, electric windshield, shaft drive, and a REAL overdrive in 6th gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoungesq Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 just back from dyno today ... me on my 99 bird & buddy on his 09 zx14. Removing the butterflies gave him a 14 hp increase to 174 and 4 lbs torque to 103. pretty impressive. Looks like they might help smooth out some "mushiness" between 2500 & 3500 rpms where the AF wavers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 just back from dyno today ... me on my 99 bird & buddy on his 09 zx14. Removing the butterflies gave him a 14 hp increase to 174 and 4 lbs torque to 103. pretty impressive. Looks like they might help smooth out some "mushiness" between 2500 & 3500 rpms where the AF wavers. Removing them increased peak HP numbers? Must be set up a little differently than the ZX, or there was a PC and a hell of a tuner involved. Flies are fully opened and not much of a factor up top on the ZX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoungesq Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 There was a PC V, headers, and a really good tuner. The tuner had done a number of zx14s & showed us a few before-and-after maps (butterflies in then out) with the same increase up top. Some very minor sacrifice down low in the 2500 - 3500 rpms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 There was a PC V, headers, and a really good tuner. The tuner had done a number of zx14s & showed us a few before-and-after maps (butterflies in then out) with the same increase up top. Some very minor sacrifice down low in the 2500 - 3500 rpms. Ah, that makes more sense. I'd guess removing the flies had nothing to do with that extra 14 up top. That was the exhaust and the tune. I am surprised that there was less power anywhere below 6k after removing the flies, but I'm far from a professional tuner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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