brent Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Stan found 2 je pistons and carillo rods, and a bunch of rings.. will be sending it out with a few other things this friday... also found a set of (i believe) stock hayabusa and blackbird pistons if anyone wants them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Stan found 2 je pistons and carillo rods, and a bunch of rings.. will be sending it out with a few other things this friday... also found a set of (i beleive) stock hayabusa and blackbird pistons if anyone wants them To get the rash out we are going to have to bore it, Brent. Oversize, pistons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Stan found 2 je pistons and carillo rods, and a bunch of rings.. will be sending it out with a few other things this friday... also found a set of (i beleive) stock hayabusa and blackbird pistons if anyone wants them To get the rash out we are going to have to bore it, Brent. Oversize, pistons? no i think they are stock size, not 100% sure...maybe it would be cheaper to get a head off ebay or the board? what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Is it a 97 Carbed motor or a FI motor? I think Dean has some carbed heads, I have one off a 01. Looks like that motor is pretty tore up, I thought breaking a ring was bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 97 carbed i think it was FI at one point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Yes it is stock bore now, and the pistons looked good, and the head is more than likely fine. Think, but will have to clean and measure everything with micrometers, but first sight.not to bad So far, crank, bore and pistons, rod, bearings, shims and maybe buckets, rings and gaskets. Not bad, and going to be bigger! Hp relief valve, oil pump? Might be able to shim yours, and lap the pump housing. Valve job... I just hope the rash on the cylinder will clean at 1mm. should. I forget what is the difference in the heads? If your carbed. Thought it was a sensor that was not used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Any updates??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Any updates??? Plastigauged the cam covers at .003 clearance, but have not checked the allowable. think the covers are gone. Sending the crank out tomorrow and getting a new rod. The shims and buckets are junk and going to see if the cams are too. Springs are weak, and will need to be replaced and shimed for closed pressure. Been working a lot so not as much done. Need pistons to bore. Gotta find some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Any updates??? Plastigauged the cam covers at .003 clearance, but have not checked the allowable. think the covers are gone. Sending the crank out tomorrow and getting a new rod. The shims and buckets are junk and going to see if the cams are too. Springs are weak, and will need to be replaced and shimed for closed pressure. Been working a lot so not as much done. Need pistons to bore. Gotta find some. I believe the cam covers and head are assembled and line bored together, precluding replacing the covers alone...I'm not sure about allowable clearance but to much bleeds off oil pressure. I don't think the springs can be shimmed. I measured the set I had and they were too close to coil bind with minimal shimming. 20 lbs boost necessitates HD springs, but the original valves are a 2 piece design, which don't react too well with increased spring pressure. Just been through most of this with Bob Carpenter of Carpenter Race Engines on my motor. Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Any updates??? Plastigauged the cam covers at .003 clearance, but have not checked the allowable. think the covers are gone. Sending the crank out tomorrow and getting a new rod. The shims and buckets are junk and going to see if the cams are too. Springs are weak, and will need to be replaced and shimed for closed pressure. Been working a lot so not as much done. Need pistons to bore. Gotta find some. I believe the cam covers and head are assembled and line bored together, precluding replacing the covers alone...I'm not sure about allowable clearance but to much bleeds off oil pressure. I don't think the springs can be shimmed. I measured the set I had and they were too close to coil bind with minimal shimming. 20 lbs boost necessitates HD springs, but the original valves are a 2 piece design, which don't react too well with increased spring pressure. Just been through most of this with Bob Carpenter of Carpenter Race Engines on my motor. Hank Thanks Hank, Was going to call and talk to Elton about that. I was pretty sure that was what he said before on the cam covers. Was going to measure the pressures first, and then decide on the springs. But, with the marks on the buckets and shims, would be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 You're welcome... My stock springs measured 38 lbs seat pressure.. Add max boost that you want to run (20 lbs or more) and you're in the 58+ lb area. IMO, Carpenter has the best springs available and are about $140.00 for the set. Stock valves are 2 piece... Each piece is spun (in opposite directions) at high speed and pressed together, welding themselves...this is cheaper than 1 piece but not as strong. Bob had a couple of valve failures with stock valves and HD springs and advised me against it... I only run 10-12 lbs boost so stock is OK for my motor... Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 cheap big-bore cometic head gasket going to play with my "feeler guage" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 cheap big-bore cometic head gasket going to play with my "feeler guage" Shouldn't you buy a spare? As far as shimming goes, I had heavy springs in mine (Kibblewhite, IIRC) and still shimmed them from about 60 PSI to 80 PSI for my use. You can shim w/o coil bind - Rick Ward can, anyway.. No problem shimming aftermarket springs, as there is usually more room between the coils to start with. The problem comes in when trying to shim stock springs. If I could have shimmed mine, I would have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 .004 is max on oil clearance on the cams, and we have .003. Iffy for sure and lowers the oil pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Ok, talked with Elton, Need one falcon rod, crank, 81mm pistons and pens, springs and ti retainers, gaskets,from him. Cams measure ok, but have marks. Going to need good valves. Don't have a price on them yet. The stuff from Elton right at $2200.00 Need buckets, bearings, and oil pump. Somebody throw a glass of water on Brent for me. Is this a Morrison turbo unit? What size is the turbo Brent? The pistons are a new one that EFR has that has more meat between the top ring and the intake valve cut. And alum. pin buttons, and tool steel pins. Yours were bent too, so that will be needed. Now your not going to get the power you were saying without going to injection. A conversion by EFR is going to be about 10,000. Just so you know. He also said he has some good heads. And he is doing a 1500cc bird engine too. Cool. Working on a nitro one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcam622 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 haven't been watching for a while..but carpenter springs work fine..never had any problems over 35lbs of boost on any of my Busas...the bird was fine to 30 lbs with the springs that were in there over 13500 rpm...the clicking brent was refering to was not a berring noise..it would only do it when the bike was moving..in any gear and sounded like it was coming from the output shaft area...would not do it on the stand, only when there was some kind of load on it.....why cant the rod be re-sized in stead of replaced?...done it before with many rods.....and to all that say you can't make big power with carbs....just because you cant make it work doesn't mean it can't be done...that bike made 460whp @28lbs many time without breaking a sweat..with A/F ratios a fi bike would dream about...and going up a few jet sizes and 35lbs it's an animal...it was built by a friend of Dennis(motorhead)...he has been building carb'd turbo bikes since the mid 80s. I pulled one of vellocitys baddest busa turbo drag bikes from a 50mph roll like he shut it off....with antiquated technology...ten years ago evryone said you couldn't make a blow through carb boosted drag car work...woops...they were wrong too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Hey Redcam, glad you posted that...I remember when your bike was for sale and I thought it was a real good deal. I had an idea this was the same bike...big head bolts were Dennis's trademark.. I took my carbed BB to Dennis after I installed the turbokit and had him dyno it...I really enjoyed the time I spent there, got a chance to meet Mike Shank and "Diesel"...brought him some bisquits the second trip. My buddy had Dennis put a MCXpress Stg 2 kit on his Busa...Dennis has forgotten more about Turboes than most people know...wish he was still around. A-F is real nice on my bike too, but it's only a 12 lb, pump gas everyday rider... So you're not buyin that the only way to make big HP is to ship suitcases full of money to Elton? LOL...Again, thanks for postin...Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Most bearings that are out only make noise when loaded. And these bearings were not only bad but almost gone, completely. I have re sized rods also, and wondered the same thing. I can only guess that the Falicon Rods are not recommended to be re sized. What I get is there is a limit, at the part line, and he does look to see if it is too bad there. No mater how much you take out of the rod cap and rod face is going to reduce the diameter at the part line much, enough to make it smaller so you have the crush you need to hold the bearing. The main deal is oil clearance on the rods big-end. Honda allows for .001", but for big power it should be .0005". That takes better rod and mains. And good work getting the corect bearings sized and correctly installed. Proper cleaning, fitting, torque. Now I will build it anyway that you think, but I have been clear as to what is wrong and the solution. The rust in the cylinder is the big decision. And the most expensive problem. The springs and valves and retainers, your choice also. There is an indication that a problem has been happening, with the shims and buckets. The excess valve clearance could have caused that. I don't know what the rpm this was turned to. And the hp Brent was telling me he wanted out of this, well it is going to cost buckets, maybe barrels. If money is a problem, then hp will be. I am being paid to look at the parts and see what I see. And post up, so we can decide what to do. If it was mine, and I did not have the money, to make the hp I wanted, I know what I would do. I would build the bottom end the best that money would buy. No skimping, there. I would buy new pens, and run the pistons I had. Hone the cylinders and put new rings. Check the springs and shim for closed pressure and check for bind. Measure the valves heads and if over. Put my money into new good valves. Not stock. When I got the money, change the springs and retainers for good ones. If I made the same power as before fine. Save the money up to do this again with 80 mm new style pistons and refresh bearings, and then turn it up. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcam622 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I agree with you on your diagnosis..but when the bike was delivered to the guy to fix the trans ,it ran perfect...when it was picked up...the clicking was there...if you brought the bike up to 50 and pulled the clutch in,the noise continued with the motor idleing..no load on the motor....i agree that it should be put together right...but whatever springs were in it were fine to 14k...not saying they're still good...but they were...turbo is a t-61...NOT the one that was in it when it was dyno'd...that one was closer to a 65mm..but the same housing...a hybrid...It's up to him what his budget is...he needs to sell some of his star trek action figures i guess...only kidding...good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 I could hear mine tick at idle, with open headers, and it was just to the copper. Lost oil pressure for no more than a second at idle, when I went to stop hard. You may not know, but I run non sump pan like EFR has. And my oil would not stay covering the oil pickup when I would stop. Oil light would blink and it was done. I built a wind age tray between the pan and case, and added a Canton oil accumulator to the main oil galley. And never had another problem. Under some extreme conditions that no bird has ever seen. Since it don't lean centrifugal force does not keep the oil in the pan, but drives it to the crank under stopping and to the trans under acceleration. And I am not kidding, repaired the motor, took for a quick warm up and blast 1/8 mile and tore down. Still got my Falicon rod. And the crank, the second time, too. Almost 20,000 on it since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 motor is almost ready to put together. Bought 81mm pistons and another rod, crank, valves, springs, retainers, bearings, gaskets, did a valve job, bored the block, and ported the head. Set valve installed height and pressure, lapped the valves. Set the ring gap. Gone thorugh the trans for problems and found a extra washer, and some marks on the shift forks I dont like. The trans undercut looks well done and they are shotpeaned well. Over all looks like it will be a great motor. Some pictures are in the photobucket. But I wanted to show Brent the marks on the shift forks. Some of the porting work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Looking good! I like the porting job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Looking good! I like the porting job! thanks was really nasty, seats overhang .125 inch all the way around both intake and exhaust. rough too. casting part line stallagtights, and mights....much better now. thanks Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 shit, 15 spring seats,,,blackdiamond is sending another, head together less one valve..rods and pistons and crank tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Well today was a mixture of shit, and success. The rods Brent had in the motor did not have the oil hole drilled that sends oil to the bottom of the piston, and the replacement one did, so got that put in them. Went to put the rods and pistons together and the second clip would not go into the groove. Called and found that the chamfer was not enough. Needed .010 deeper on each end. So I cut that and all was good. Then went to put the rings on,,,,and they were the wrong ones, Fuck!!!~ already fitted too. Another call and they were wc8100 not the wg8100 they were to have been. Oh yeah, Blackdiamond lost my info, had to call and reorder the seat. Good thing I told them where I got all the parts from. So I guess I get tomorrow off...great. wrist pen too long circlip not in the groove another view one more fixing the problem done rod oil hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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