spicholy Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I recall some have used kerosene to clean the old oil/gunk off their chain. Question I have is this. If I recall, Coleman fuel for stoves and lamps is basically a high grade kerosene. Correct? If so, will it harm the o-rings in the chain? I have a jar of leftover Coleman that I was going to use. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exskibum Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I recall some have used kerosene to clean the old oil/gunk off their chain. Question I have is this. If I recall, Coleman fuel for stoves and lamps is basically a high grade kerosene. Correct? If so, will it harm the o-rings in the chain? I have a jar of leftover Coleman that I was going to use. Any thoughts? I'm not sure that Coleman stove fuel is kerosene. It's also known as "white gas", and I know that some backpacking stoves will burn it, but not kerosene. Not sure the difference in refining, though. If it were me, I wouldn't submerge an O-ring chain in any solvent, including kerosene, since I'm reasonably confident that it WILL get past the O-rings and reduce chain life. What I do is dampen a rag (not soak it) with kerosene and wipe the chain down with that to get most of the outside greasy dirt build up off before letting it dry and relubing. I don't know why that conservative approach wouldn't work with Coleman fuel, though I wouldn't use something like lacquer thinner or epoxy reducer even in that application for fear that even minimal contact with the O-rings might damage them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicholy Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 Sounds fair. The method I was contemplating is to use a brush dipped in the Coleman on the outer plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_40 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 WD-40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 WD-40 ...and an old sock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 WD-40 ...and an old sock. Damn, I used all of my old socks looking at NWS posts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Sounds fair. The method I was contemplating is to use a brush dipped in the Coleman on the outer plates. That's what I did. Used some kerosene and a toothbrush, did the outer plates, let it dry then promptly lubed with black label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunedain Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 That may have been me. I posted something like that some time back. NO WHITE GAS! That will get right passed the o-rings and may hurt them too. Not to mention explode on a whim. Do what you will but when you got a stuck bolt what do you put on it? WD-40! It's a penetrent! I have at least 8 cans of WD-40 around my shop as I love the stuff but none of goes on an o-ring chain. http://wd40.com/Brands/wd40.cfm read the first paragraph......"Penetrent" Just my opinion here but I would never spray that on my chain.......someone mentioned spraying it on the sock and wiping with it and I would do that but consider what it costs versus kerosene. this and fie dola gets you a latte at Starbucks...but I heard they upped their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 What I do is dampen a rag (not soak it) with kerosene and wipe the chain down with that to get most of the outside greasy dirt build up off before letting it dry and relubing. This is my method of cleaning the chain, as well. Works very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicholy Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Kerosene, WD40, Kerosene, WD40?????????????? Me thinks a small amount of Kerosene. I hadn't thought about WD40 penetrating past the o-rings. Thanks guys. I'm off to see the chain, the wonderful chain of gunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooplehead Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 We don't have any wd-40 in the shop. PB blaster is much more the penetrant. I do a lot of suspension work and alignments. I always have a can and a torch! I would not however use it on a chain. I use bel-ray super clean chain lube. It may bite me in the ass, but I don''t clean the chain w/anything but a bucket and soap when I wash the bike. The Super clean sticks like nothing else, so the swing arm doesn't get nasty. It look like white paint which I think is cool. I just think it'd be better to keep the harsh chems away for those o-rings. Keep it greased, then replace when it kinks. Of course, I try to keep my bird outta the grime. Use my rm250 for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicholy Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 I was using the Bel Ray chain lube also all of last year. I think that it's consistency is why my chain is so gunky though. I am planning on cleaning it well, then going to 90 wt. oil. See how that does this year. The chain was put on last June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 It doesn't matter if you use a solvent at all, as long as you change the sealing rings afterwards, whether they're O, X, or Z-rings. Try using some clean oil on a rag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanix Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 White gas is naptha, a leftover from making gasoline. Used for zippo lighters and for removing gay rainbow bumper stickers from used cars one purchases. It is essentially a solvent, not like kerosene which is a little less aggressive. I use kerosene yearly on my chain, and I have over 20k on this one, with no signs of stretch/wear on it. DID, if I remember correctly. I also lube every 300 miles or so with mobil 1 synthetic gear lube, but I might use lucas, from what I read on a previous post. I wipe off the excess with used old socks... the added stiffness of the sock makes for a better scrubbing action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 It doesn't matter if you use a solvent at all, as long as you change the sealing rings afterwards, whether they're O, X, or Z-rings. Try using some clean oil on a rag. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicholy Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 It doesn't matter if you use a solvent at all, as long as you change the sealing rings afterwards, whether they're O, X, or Z-rings. Try using some clean oil on a rag. Sorry Joe, you lost me. How do you change the rings on a chain? Aren't they sealed between the links? After cleaning the chain, I doused it good with oil. Kept rotating the tire as I was applying it. Let it sit and ooze in for 30 minutes. Then I went over the chain with a fresh rag and wiped up what extra oil I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 76k on the RS and I haven't cleaned the chain yet! The bird has the Pro-oiler and I just keep adding synthetic oil to it and keep the rear wheel clean. The constant bath keeps the chain clean, and lasting a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwflorence Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I was always told that you clean your chain with diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Sorry Joe, you lost me. How do you change the rings on a chain? Aren't they sealed between the links? Yes they are. However, you can change the sealing rings by grinding the head from each pin and replacing half the entire chain, link by link, with new master links and seals. This should take about 20 hours of labor and cost around $250. An plan more economical of time and finances would be to replace the entire chain as a unit, taking about half an hour and costing $130. The chain is sealed until deterioration of the sealing rings occurs. Some of the causes of that deterioration are: :A long life of constant friction (wearing out from normal use) :Excessive longitudinal friction. The sealing ring is designed to seal against rotary motion, not linear motion. As the chain wears, play develops in the links, and allows the sideplates to shift in relationship to the link pin, not just rotate around them. That motion rolls the sealing ring just a bit, and helps to introduce adjacent junk into the seal. That junk is typically abrasive, and hastens the demise of the sealing ring. :solvents....make the sealing ring softer and less cohesive, and therefore more susceptible to damage. :corrosives...road salts and other chemicals can damage the seals. :aggressive physical cleaning can force abrasives into the sealing area. This included the use of pressure washers and soaps which can strip the lubricant layer from the seal. :heat...lack of lubrication between the rollers/sprockets causes increased heat, breaking down the seal. This can be from extended high speed operation, inconsistant or infrequent chain maintainance/oiling, or misalignment of the sprockets. I'm sure there's more, but this is what comes to mind. Look at the grime you find inside the sprocket cover when you change your front sprocket. This is a fine tenacious mix of chain lube and road dirt. In many instances I've seen, it would almost make a good valve grinding compound, and its a collection of what's been flung off your chain. When you use solvents to clean your chain of this crap, you're releasing the abrasive road grit to get closer to the seals. I NEVER clean a chain, unless its been contaminated with something that's just nasty...like road salt. Then I just flush it with high-detergent engine oil. Otherwise, I use a chain lube often, and if the chain is really crappy, I'll take an oil-soaked rag to clean up the side plates. So what's the bottom line? A chain costs $130. Sprockets are as cheap as $40 front and rear. Does it really make a difference if they wear out in 10k miles or 20k miles? That's roughly one to two cents per mile at the extremes....not anything to bother your nappy head about. The real issue about chain wear is not about mileage from each chain, but keeping it safe so that it doesn't take out your engine case when it breaks....or worse yet, toss you down the road like a rag doll when it locks the rear end up at any speed. If your chain and sprockets show wear....replace them. Its not worth wringing the last mile out of them. I wipe off the excess with used old socks... the added stiffness of the sock makes for a better scrubbing action. This is not a good visual. There are things here I don't want to know, or think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicholy Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Thanks for the info. I was wondering if you were serious about actually going through the trouble of replacing rings. The process is what I thought it would be. I will just keep it oiled up and watch the adjustment gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanix Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 So what's the bottom line? A chain costs $130. Sprockets are as cheap as $40 front and rear. Does it really make a difference if they wear out in 10k miles or 20k miles? That's roughly one to two cents per mile at the extremes....not anything to bother your nappy head about. The real issue about chain wear is not about mileage from each chain, but keeping it safe so that it doesn't take out your engine case when it breaks....or worse yet, toss you down the road like a rag doll when it locks the rear end up at any speed. If your chain and sprockets show wear....replace them. Its not worth wringing the last mile out of them. I wipe off the excess with used old socks... the added stiffness of the sock makes for a better scrubbing action. This is not a good visual. There are things here I don't want to know, or think about. I agree totally. Safety is a priority and I wouldn't recommend that anyone ride their bike if it was anywhere near a marginal state. I am severely ocd and I just like sitting on the floor, playing with my bike. Once or twice a year I use a soft toothbrush, remove the wheel (check bearings) and roll the chain in a bowl of kerosene, looking for damage and possible wear in the links. If I find anything suspicious, believe me, I will change the chain in a heartbeat. To date, I have seen none and have no wear on either the front or rear sprockets. FYI, I use the brush on the side plates, not the roller surfaces. What doesn't wash out with the kerosene can stay where it is. As for the old used socks, I was just kidding around. I use old clean socks. Which I cut up when the elastics wear out on them. They make good throw away rags and are mostly soft cotton which absorbs the kerosene. Then I oil the chain up. I hope my lame attempt at humor is taken in the context it was meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 If it matters, I have found that for cleaning off the goop on the side plates, Honda Polish (or the new "not named but still is" Honda Polish) works wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para045 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 As for the old used socks, I was just kidding around. I use old clean socks. Which I cut up when the elastics wear out on them. They make good throw away rags and are mostly soft cotton which absorbs the kerosene. Then I oil the chain up. I just used my old jocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Starting with a clean chain ride it to get it up to temp. Lube with whatever lube/wax you prefer and wipe the excess off. In other words, lube it after the ride. Warm chain flows the lube better and wiping the excess off helps keep shit from sticking to it and reduces splatter on the rear rim and front sprocket area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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