Tripple X Double X'er Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Just got the barnet clutch and I realize that all of the clutch plates are the same. On the 98's the first friction plate is recessed for the judder spring and judder spring seat. The after market parts are not. Has anyone else changed out their clutch on a 97 or 98 model with an after market clutch? I waited a month for these parts to arrive... I don't want to wait that long for the replacements. I already have the cover off and the plates removed, I want to put it back together but don't know if I should try the install with or without the judder ring. :icon_pray: Edit: While attemptin to reinstall the clutch I noticed that the main shaft had some play in it, which didn't seem to be right so I pulled of the oil pump sprocket and low and behold.... The attached pics are of the main shaft of the transmission. Take a look at the bearing... Any thoughts, Suggestions? This may be the cause of this same noise on other birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooplehead Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Maybe this will help. I haven't a clue, but I can identify with what you are going through. There, feel better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 There, feel better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripple X Double X'er Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 Maybe this will help. I haven't a clue, but I can identify with what you are going through. There, feel better? Oh yes, I feel so much better now... Now what's that word everyone reffers to you as... dopplehead.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooplehead Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Maybe this will help. I haven't a clue, but I can identify with what you are going through. There, feel better? Oh yes, I feel so much better now... Now what's that word everyone reffers to you as... dopplehead.. hooplehead! shit man, get it right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmike Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Use the original plate with the rest of the new pack... even if it's a temp fix while you wait for the right part, it'll probably work and at least you're mobile in the interim... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripple X Double X'er Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Just spoke with a tech rep from Barnett, he indicated that with their kit the judder spring and seat are not needed... Anyone else have any input. I know I'm not the only one to change out a clutch on a 97 or 98 model bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Just spoke with a tech rep from Barnett, he indicated that with their kit the judder spring and seat are not needed... Anyone else have any input. I know I'm not the only one to change out a clutch on a 97 or 98 model bird. I've never ridden a 97 or 98 model, but I'm told the clutch engagement is much smoother at higher RPM's because of the judder spring. If I try to launch my 99 at anything higher than 4k, she bucks like a bronco. If you like to launch hard, don't take it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Just spoke with a tech rep from Barnett, he indicated that with their kit the judder spring and seat are not needed... Anyone else have any input. I know I'm not the only one to change out a clutch on a 97 or 98 model bird. I've never ridden a 97 or 98 model, but I'm told the clutch engagement is much smoother at higher RPM's because of the judder spring. If I try to launch my 99 at anything higher than 4k, she bucks like a bronco. If you like to launch hard, don't take it out. I had the same situation with the shuddering on my old 83' CB1100F. It was a glazing issue with the steels/clutches. Even if you replaced your peices with OEM stuff, you would solve your issue. BTW, with all stock internals in my 01' , I have launched as high as 7500 rpm with no shudder at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Just spoke with a tech rep from Barnett, he indicated that with their kit the judder spring and seat are not needed... Anyone else have any input. I know I'm not the only one to change out a clutch on a 97 or 98 model bird. I've never ridden a 97 or 98 model, but I'm told the clutch engagement is much smoother at higher RPM's because of the judder spring. If I try to launch my 99 at anything higher than 4k, she bucks like a bronco. If you like to launch hard, don't take it out. I had the same situation with the shuddering on my old 83' CB1100F. It was a glazing issue with the steels/clutches. Even if you replaced your peices with OEM stuff, you would solve your issue. BTW, with all stock internals in my 01' , I have launched as high as 7500 rpm with no shudder at all. My experience was not really a shudder. "Grabby" is probably a better description. All I know is that the "clutch cushion" mod I got from Brock Davidson made it feel more like the cable-operated clutch on my old Katana 1100. Easy modulation and baby smooth at any RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripple X Double X'er Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 Thanks for all of the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Thanks for all of the advice! i removed that judder spring disk and replaced it with a standard plate on my vmax,, which throws much more torque and i could feel zero difference,, my 99 bird did NOT have one in it at all and it "bucked" bad on hard starts,, but i completely got it to go away by bleading the clutch and replacing the fluid with synthetic hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripple X Double X'er Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share Posted March 8, 2008 Bump. Read the initial thread. It has been edited and pictures added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmike Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Where the hell are the rest of the bearing's balls..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanix Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I think all the balls are there, but the squirrel cage is missing? I hope you don't have too much pain trying to replace those bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripple X Double X'er Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 It looks like the engine will have to come out to repair this. The bearing is actually pressed on to that shaft. I don't know if my mechanical aptitude is up to the challenge. I think I will take this one to the shop...depending on the cost. Any recomendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 Sorry to say so but its engine out time. You will have major problems changing that bearing in place. It could be done but would need some tricky pulling equipment. The big problem is what are the rest of the gearbox bearings like? Also where are the pieces of the cage? That type of failure could be the result of clutch abuse or lubrication problems, either way I would want to look inside before something really expensive happens. JohnS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripple X Double X'er Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 With the gears directly behind the bearing I am 95% sure they didn't go into the trans. Before I pull the motor I'm going to attempt to pull it out. I think I found a bearing puller that will do the trick: http://www.directindustry.com/prod/simatec...092-247629.html Any opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 I'd try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toynut Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 You can try to use the puller as long as you don't pull off the outer race and leave the inner race stuck on the shaft. You are definitely going to have to look for the rest of the bearing parts before they start trashing your gear box, too, or you will do some other expensive damage to your internals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Ok that is bad,, no way you can just change the bearing..well you could, but your wasting your time. That motor will have to be rebuilt and everything will have to be checked and cleaned. Everything. Pull the pan, and the oil pump and there will be metal in the pump. Number three rod bearing will be copper. crank will have to be replaced or EFR can weld and remachine. You got a real problem. No clutch would cause that, that is a oiling problem. To low, bad oil, metal loose and got in the bearing,,something bad. cut the housing from the oil filter without making filings,,,metal shears. lay the filter element paper out and look at the amount it caught. Bad very bad. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrbear Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Just spoke with a tech rep from Barnett, he indicated that with their kit the judder spring and seat are not needed... Anyone else have any input. I know I'm not the only one to change out a clutch on a 97 or 98 model bird. I run barnett on all my bikes. From my old 87 CBR1000 to my 900RR and my CBR1100XX I REMOVE the jutter ring and spring ring or whatever its called wether the kit comes with the special friction plate or not. All it does is reduce noise and vibration and to be honest I cant tell the difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripple X Double X'er Posted March 10, 2008 Author Share Posted March 10, 2008 Ok that is bad,, no way you can just change the bearing..well you could, but your wasting your time. That motor will have to be rebuilt and everything will have to be checked and cleaned. Everything. Pull the pan, and the oil pump and there will be metal in the pump. Number three rod bearing will be copper. crank will have to be replaced or EFR can weld and remachine. You got a real problem. No clutch would cause that, that is a oiling problem. To low, bad oil, metal loose and got in the bearing,,something bad. cut the housing from the oil filter without making filings,,,metal shears. lay the filter element paper out and look at the amount it caught. Bad very bad. Sorry When I get home I'm going to cut the old oil filter in half and see if I can find any shavings. Can the oil pan be dropped without too much trouble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Ok that is bad,, no way you can just change the bearing..well you could, but your wasting your time. That motor will have to be rebuilt and everything will have to be checked and cleaned. Everything. Pull the pan, and the oil pump and there will be metal in the pump. Number three rod bearing will be copper. crank will have to be replaced or EFR can weld and remachine. You got a real problem. No clutch would cause that, that is a oiling problem. To low, bad oil, metal loose and got in the bearing,,something bad. cut the housing from the oil filter without making filings,,,metal shears. lay the filter element paper out and look at the amount it caught. Bad very bad. Sorry When I get home I'm going to cut the old oil filter in half and see if I can find any shavings. Can the oil pan be dropped without too much trouble? Yes, but I'd pull the motor anyway. It has some serious issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toynut Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 To be honest, even if you manage to pull the old bearing off with a puller, installing a new one will involve some presswork (please don't try to pound it on with a hammer and drift). Section 12 in the XX manual will give you some idea as to what needs to be done. I believe an Ebay motor would be a more sensible approach should the bottom end/ bearing journals be contaminated with metal debris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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