Iceman Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Has anyone ever had problems with leakage after an oil change when the oil drain plug washer is not changed? I am about to do an oil change and the local expert on everything is offering his 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 No, never. I believe you should change them, I always forget to buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I've changed my oil at least 20 times, and never replaced the washer. Still no leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXTi Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I replace mine every time. It's probably not necessary, but it makes me feel better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I change them when I remember. Had Steeler do it once, when my back was out. No leaks, and no washer either. Get a handful next time you are at a steeler, and keep them with your filter wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaXX Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I've changed my oil at least 20 times, and never replaced the washer. Still no leaks. Same here....Maybe it's a Canadian thing? :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 45k on the original washer with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 A 97 and still the factory washer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 98 with 70 K miles, original washer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kf4mtw Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I took my drain plug into a NAPA store first oil change and matched it up with a Magnetic Drainplug couple years ago. Change my oil and filter about every 1000 miles and there's always some little tiny pieces of stuff stuck to it the filter didn't collect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 I took my drain plug into a NAPA store first oil change and matched it up with a Magnetic Drainplug couple years ago. Change my oil and filter about every 1000 miles and there's always some little tiny pieces of stuff stuck to it the filter didn't collect. I think you mean there is always little bits that the filter can't collect because it's stuck to the magnetic drain plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx7.62 Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Last time I changed my oil, I trued the washer on a flat 220 grit stone. This removed any irregularities in the washer and flattened it out. I had the time and forgot to buy more washers. Bottom line, no leakie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kf4mtw Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I took my drain plug into a NAPA store first oil change and matched it up with a Magnetic Drainplug couple years ago. Change my oil and filter about every 1000 miles and there's always some little tiny pieces of stuff stuck to it the filter didn't collect. I think you mean there is always little bits that the filter can't collect because it's stuck to the magnetic drain plug. ........................ No, that's NOT what I meant............ :icon_doh: next time you change the oil, clean the drain pan first, let the used oil settle a couple hours, dump it into your waste container very slowly leaving just a little oil in the drain pan, put yer glasses on and check out the tiny sparkles in the sunlight the filter didn't collect. If you want to have more fun, cut the oil filter open and see what it did collect. A new motor will shock you, that's why I usually change oil and filter 3-4 times before the 1st 1000 miles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Actually the oil in the pan is the remains of what has run through your engine. All lubrication is done with filtered oil. If you use a good quality filter (and good quality oil, more later) the particles you can see, even with glasses on do not get pumped through the engine. Side issue: Oil filters have a bypass valve to allow oil to flow around a clogged filter, so it is feasible that damaging particles can be pushed through an engine, but not likely if filters (and oil) are changed regularly. Oil has a number of jobs. Lubrication, Cooling, Preventing oxidation, Carrying particles in suspension, Sealing are among the main ones. Keeping particles in suspension is an important one because it is the only way they will get to the filter. Some particles may settle because of mass, or drop out of suspension because of long periods of rest between rides but they do no damage at all in a sump. If they get disturbed at all they will be taken up by the oil sump pickup….and taken to the filter. A magnetic plug is a useful tool for gross particles like valve collets or gear teeth but not much use for engine wear diagnosis. Just a gimmick. I do agree with an early oil and filter change but 3-4 times in the first 1000 miles is pushing it a little. But oil is cheaper than engine parts. :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kf4mtw Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 "A magnetic plug is a useful tool for gross particles like valve collets or gear teeth but not much use for engine wear diagnosis. Just a gimmick"................................ Everyone is entitled to their opinions here, I prefer little bits of everyday wear and tear specs of metal be stuck to a magnet instead of floating around my engine but then again I drive fast on occasion often over 11000 rpm's. I use recommended Honda Oil and Honda filter every 1000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 That was my point. Little bits of metal don't float around your engine. Unless it's flying apart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 That was my point. Little bits of metal don't float around your engine. Unless it's flying apart! +1 On the other hand, his engine is running dry for about 5 seconds every 1000 miles, vs mine, that runs dry for 5 seconds every 5,000 miles, so he is going to have more wear metals as a function of not having any lubrication in the head/bearings 5 times as often (the first 1k is a different story, as lots of stuff comes out in the first 100)... On the other hand still (how many hands are there?), those wear metals are coming from the gears in the trans, not the engine... The stuff that wears away from the engine is brass, lead, and aluminum mostly, and none of those are ferrous, so a magnet won't matter at all anyway... BTW, Dave, I started trying to set this guy straight in several different threads about several different things thinking he was just misguided and wanted to look hard to try and get some "instant street cred", being new to the forum and all, but it's apparent that he's either the densest motherfucker I've ever "met" or just a troll, and probably both. Hell, even his sig line is trolling... "if there was a faster bike, I'd own it." Don't waste your time, he's not worth it, and it seems he's been laughed out of several other forums too... On the bright side, he's kindof turned into the forum joke, because in about every thread, you see somebody say something about the "super-fast '02 'birds." Back to the topic at hand, I replace the washer, just because, every 2 oil changes... They're like $.25 each, and the one that was on there for the first 20k miles had gone about 20 thousandths larger on the OD with every time I turned it over and torqued it, so I figure they're cheap enough, whatever... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 BTW, Dave, I started trying to set this guy straight in several different threads about several different things thinking he was just misguided and wanted to look hard to try and get some "instant street cred", being new to the forum and all, but it's apparent that he's either the densest motherfucker I've ever "met" or just a troll, and probably both. Hell, even his sig line is trolling... "if there was a faster bike, I'd own it." Don't waste your time, he's not worth it, and it seems he's been laughed out of several other forums too... On the bright side, he's kindof turned into the forum joke, because in about every thread, you see somebody say something about the "super-fast '02 'birds." Thanks for the heads up. I was starting to wonder if it was a joke....getting a little frustated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 BTW, Dave, I started trying to set this guy straight in several different threads about several different things thinking he was just misguided and wanted to look hard to try and get some "instant street cred", being new to the forum and all, but it's apparent that he's either the densest motherfucker I've ever "met" or just a troll, and probably both. Hell, even his sig line is trolling... "if there was a faster bike, I'd own it." Don't waste your time, he's not worth it, and it seems he's been laughed out of several other forums too... On the bright side, he's kindof turned into the forum joke, because in about every thread, you see somebody say something about the "super-fast '02 'birds." Thanks for the heads up. I was starting to wonder if it was a joke....getting a little frustated. My 02' is faster than his though... I bypassed my oil filter so the motor doesn't strain and loose HP of having to pump through a filter.. I change my oil by dropping the oil pan every 100 miles and adding new oil. I use shit that even NASA and MOTO GP don't know about. Got a big case of it from an alien where we went deep into the space near Youranus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kf4mtw Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 I feel so blessed to be in the presence of such experts in this field here!..................I learned foreign metallic particles don't float around in the oil, oil with foreign metallic particles don't float around an engine, oil with foreign metallic particles can't hurt an engine, changing the oil is harmful to an engine, :icon_hand: ya'll really must stop, :icon_think: .................I'm forever in search of intelligent input, still looking!. :icon_duh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 On the other hand, his engine is running dry for about 5 seconds every 1000 miles, vs mine, that runs dry for 5 seconds every 5,000 miles, Mike Mike, you mean that the oil circuit is dry until until the engine fires and there is oil circulation again, right? Before putting the new oil filter, I am pouring fresh oil in it (IIRC it takes about 200ml). What do you think about that, does it helps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 On the other hand, his engine is running dry for about 5 seconds every 1000 miles, vs mine, that runs dry for 5 seconds every 5,000 miles, Mike Mike, you mean that the oil circuit is dry until until the engine fires and there is oil circulation again, right? Before putting the new oil filter, I am pouring fresh oil in it (IIRC it takes about 200ml). What do you think about that, does it helps? That does help quite a bit, actually! Yeah, it's the time between when the engine starts up the first time after an oil change and when the oil comes up to the pump, fills up the filter, and makes it up to the head and bearings that the engine is basically running dry (not REALLY dry, but without a fully pressureized hydrodynamic bearing)... Mike I feel so blessed to be in the presence of such experts in this field here!..................I learned foreign metallic particles don't float around in the oil, oil with foreign metallic particles don't float around an engine, oil with foreign metallic particles can't hurt an engine, changing the oil is harmful to an engine, :icon_hand: ya'll really must stop, :icon_think: .................I'm forever in search of intelligent input, still looking!. :icon_duh: do the research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 That does help quite a bit, actually! Yeah, it's the time between when the engine starts up the first time after an oil change and when the oil comes up to the pump, fills up the filter, and makes it up to the head and bearings that the engine is basically running dry (not REALLY dry, but without a fully pressureized hydrodynamic bearing)... Mike Exactly what I thought.. Now the dilemma: do you let it idle or do you blip the throttle to start earlier oil circulation and increase oil pressure? Personally I follow the middle road: I 'm letting it idle for 10-20 secs and then and then I increase slowly engine speed to 2-2.5k. I know its getting over the top but mine is an '03 (not the fast 02s) so I would do anything for a couple hp's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 That does help quite a bit, actually! Yeah, it's the time between when the engine starts up the first time after an oil change and when the oil comes up to the pump, fills up the filter, and makes it up to the head and bearings that the engine is basically running dry (not REALLY dry, but without a fully pressureized hydrodynamic bearing)... Mike Exactly what I thought.. Now the dilemma: do you let it idle or do you blip the throttle to start earlier oil circulation and increase oil pressure? Personally I follow the middle road: I 'm letting it idle for 10-20 secs and then and then I increase slowly engine speed to 2-2.5k. I know its getting over the top but mine is an '03 (not the fast 02s) so I would do anything for a couple hp's IMO, it doesn't matter... you've got full oil in 5 seconds anyway... the oil pump is hard driven from engine speed, so you've got close to the same number of revolutions dry either way... That having been said, I think it's probably easier on it to have low load, like idling... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 IMO, it doesn't matter... you've got full oil in 5 seconds anyway... the oil pump is hard driven from engine speed, so you've got close to the same number of revolutions dry either way... That having been said, I think it's probably easier on it to have low load, like idling... Mike For the FI models, I have the starter motor circulate the engine oil before starting. What I do is this: 1) Turn the key on, and make sure the kill switch is ON 2) Crack the throttle WFO 3) Hit the start button. The engine won't fire because the fuel pump is disabled while the throttle is WFO. (flood protection to help you clear it in the event of a tip over, etc.) 4) Watch the oil pressure light. Once the light goes out, I let go of of the starter button 5) Let off the throttle, Hit start button again. Bike fires up, but didn't idle with the oil out of the engine. With regards to the crush washer: 57k on my first XX.. 33k on the replacement.... Never replaced it, no leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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