Moriartii Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Here is what I would like to know and yes I have done a search so I have some background on this. Shadetree mechanic who hates stealerships. Want to upgrade the stock forks on my 97 bird. Have the online manual and the hard copy manual. Undecided between the Hyperpro or the Racetech packages,both seem to have excellent write ups. Weigh in fully geared at about 225lbs. Varied riding style from spirited to slab. Question is how hard is this going to be for ME to do (I am worried about the shim stack I have heard mention of). Option of sending off to DK but I would rather do myself. Do I need complete overhaul; springs, valves seal, or? The manual seems to show the forks not being all that complex but I also dont want to get the bird disassembled and realized I am hosed. Also please keep responses to the mechanical aspect of this and not the pros and cons of the various manufactures unless it specifically relates to mechanics-other threads have hashed this out prior. Thank you much Kinley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I don't know if this will help http://www.cbr1100xxforums.org/forum/viewt...r=asc&start=188 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I'd rather do it myself too, but I'd send it to a pro. I'd rather ride, than figure out fork magic that someone else is already really good at, at the same price. YMMV. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I'd rather do it myself too, but I'd send it to a pro. +1 I'm a decent home mechanic, but I'll leave suspension tuning to more experienced hands. Send 'em to Dan Kyle, that's what I'd do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squareman357 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I'd rather do it myself too, but I'd send it to a pro. +1 I'm a decent home mechanic, but I'll leave suspension tuning to more experienced hands. Send 'em to Dan Kyle, that's what I'd do. Just for replacing springs and changing fork oil? Thought you had that covered Tim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriartii Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 I called Dan Kyle and spoke to a Joey. According to him (resident Ohliens expert) DK cant do anything for the bird forks since they are damper style. Cartridge style they could. Raises the question that what did those of you who had yours done actually get done??? Kinley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Just for replacing springs and changing fork oil? Thought you had that covered Tim? Yes, I can do that in my sleep- that's essentially service, not tuning. Screwing around with damping rates is something you can do yourself, but plan on having the forks off and dismantled several times to get it right. Pretty sure both Warchild and Alphabird had their forks done by Dan Kyle, but I guess we'll have to wait and see if they speak up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Alphabird sold his bird, has a (few?) RRs now. I've not seen him on this board in some time. I'd call back and ask to talk to Dan. He has done XX forks, but I suppose it's possible he's not doing them anymore. Lindemann does forks, too. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 First off, the XX forks are cartridges. They are not damper rods.! Installing the gold valve or changing the shim stack for that matte is not the complicated if you follow the instruction that come with the valves. I had never done it before and i hadno trouble with the install, other then not sorting my shims correctly before i started. :? The complicated part is knowing what shim stack to use. The gold valves intructions give you good starting place for this . But what you want you bike to feel like to make it right for you might be totally or slightly different what your buddy the same weight wants/needs. I have changed he stacks in my front fork 3 times and i like it now but with the 1.1 kg springs im gettting i may need to add some more rebound. I want to be able to adjust the stacks myself so i have control . I think i can do a change in less then 2 hours now , that my forks have been apart and the peening and dimples have been removed . I like my goldvalves but if was doing it again now i would most likely change the springs and revalve using the stock valves. It would only cost a few bucks fo some shims to try and to revalve with the stock valves but you have to know what you want to change. The concept is simple, more damping add shim, less take one out. Getting to work like you want is an ART !! or Science mabe a bit of both !!! I don't pretend to know what im doing but i get by and everytime i work on my forks or shock i learn more . That my 2 cents anyway .... :banghead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriartii Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Ok HerbXX, unless I am a complete fucktard (this has been proven to be the case before) the 97/98 dont have cartridges or shim stacks. I am basing this on the hard copy of the 97/98 Honda service manual that I am looking at. I see springs and damper rods but no valving or shims. Thanks now you just confused the fuck outta me!!!!!!!! :shock: Help. Kinley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squareman357 Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Just for replacing springs and changing fork oil? Thought you had that covered Tim? Yes, I can do that in my sleep- that's essentially service, not tuning. Screwing around with damping rates is something you can do yourself, but plan on having the forks off and dismantled several times to get it right. Pretty sure both Warchild and Alphabird had their forks done by Dan Kyle, but I guess we'll have to wait and see if they speak up. Ahh ok cool. Then I can continue my plan to buy the larger springs and have you provide tech support for me as I install them LOL! Good show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Mabe im wrong , :oops: let me rephrase that .my 2002 has cartridges ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Mabe im wrong ,   :oops:  let me  rephrase that .my 2002 has cartridges ... But maybe not this time ..I just checked the 1997 fich , part number 12 called a damper is commonly refered to as a cartridge. Inside the cartridge is a rebound valve atached to the rod and compression vavle in bottom of the cartridge. you can't see them on the diagram because honda doesnt't want you you to take it a part . There is a couple of identations you have to drill out to get it apart and some peening to deal with to actually take the valves apart. There are some pics of valves in the useful threads section. The rod coming out of the cartridge is called a damper rod. This is totaly different then a damper rod fork where oil is forced through holes in a hollow rod also called a damper rod. The only sport bike i know that still uses a damper rod type suspension is a sv650 . I hope this helps a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriartii Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 :iloveyou: Yes herb, that helps a hell of a lot. Also answers my questions as to what you had drilled and peened in your previous post. NOW this makes sense!!!! Irks me tho, I would think the DK guy would have known this, sigh maybe it was a busy day the phones did seem to be ringing off the hook. Will try again. Thank you again Kinley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 The thing is that someone could be the best tunner in the world, but the bike they are working with is 200 lbs more than that they are used to , and you don't have external adjuster s to fine tune the damping. they may not hit it right the first time either. I don't have any place local i trust and cann't be bothered taking the forks off and shipping them somewhere so i really didn't have much choice but to do it myself. The first time is took us about 6 hours to do the gold valve install, then after that i can alter the stack in about 2 hours. Half the work is taking off the front wheel, take out the bolt in the bottom of the fork leg, take off the cap and yank out the cartridge. (its messy but not hard) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Half the work is taking off the front wheel, take out the bolt in the bottom of the fork leg, take off the cap and yank out the cartridge. (its messy but not hard) If you jacked up your bike so the front tire just touched the ground, couldn't you just slide the axle out without removing the wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 You could , but the oil runs out the bottom of the forkleg when you take out the bolt. I' m not that confident of not oiling my front wheel and tire and maybe brakes in the process. I have heard of it being done like you suggested using shields or something to keep the oil off of the wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch_1100xx Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 not trying to jack a thread here but we are on the fork topic, does anyone have the invert forks on their birds? they are damn expensive and i was wondering if they are worth it. i have also heard of PPL trying to retrofit forks from various hondas, has anyone done that here?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exskibum Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Doing same thing to my bird in the next couple weeks -- it's pretty well torn apart, and the next task is taking off the front wheel and the sliders out. I've got a guy locally (1 man shop -- maybe 50 to 55 years old) who quoted me 2 to 3 hours to do the Race Tech gold valves, springs, spacers, etc. if I bring them to him off the bike. I provide the info re: weight and riding style, preferences, and he orders the parts (free freight shipped to him). Seems pretty experienced from the conversation -- including a willingness to discuss with Race Tech whether their calculations about correct valving rates and springs for my '97 XX would be different with a Carrozzeria front wheel that is maybe 3 to 4 lbs. lighter than the stock wheel upon which their charts may be based. So, here's my thoughts and questons: 1. It seems to me from what I know about how suspension works and my numerous visits to the Race Tech web site, that Race Tech can be given enough info to provide rebound and compression valving that is pretty close to ideal for my weight and riding style. The guy I'm going to have do it noted that "Race Tech stuff works", compared to some other unnamed brands out there that can apparently be a real pain in the ass to get set up right. Since I'm not going to race the bike, is there any reason to think that the compression and rebound damping rates provided by Race Tech are going to require any messing with the valving? Am I missing something here? 2. I'm also assuming that unless there is some preload adjuster provided as part of new end caps from Race Tech, the only way to adjust spring preload (and therefore, sag) in the front end is by lengthening or shortening the spacer (looks like the service manual calls it a "spring collar" on p.13-21). I believe that Race Tech ships spacer material with the kit -- to be cut to length. So, it seems that with the forks off the bike (and without the weight of me and the fairing, etc. on it), it's going to be pretty difficult to measure sag and then adjust it by changing spacer length until the bike's rolling again. So, would it be best to have the original spacers (spring collars) put back in, reinstall everything on the bike and then ride it up to see the suspension mechanic to measure sag, cut the Race Tech spacers to proper length and install the resized spacers from the top of the fork tubes with the bike in one piece? Too much I DON'T know about all this to feel confident doing it myself. I need to discuss this with the guy who gave me an estimate on this, but your collective wisdom is much appreciated in helping me ask the right questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I think somewhere with the race tech stuff it will give you an idea of the spacer length. The race tech springs may be a different length then the stock ones so the stock spacer might not work the best for you . My race tec springs came with 4 washers and there are washers already in the bike that sort of bracket the spacer. So just with the extra washers you can add about 6 or 8mm of preload if you cut the spacer short. (you could always get a few more some were they dont need to be anything that special) . Pulling the spacer out and changing should be a big deal as long as you have a way to take the weight of the front end. The race tech instructions that came with my valves were for an older bike so you should be fine. The compression bleed hole was moved from the valve to the shaft some where between the earlier and later models( i think it was changed with the fuel injection but i dont really know) If you have a newer bird you most likely don't want to drill the hole race tech tells you too in the gold valve. (i epoxied up the holes in the shaft as i had already install drilled the valves before some on on here set me straight). Make sure you get the extra parts from the racetech kit back and the stock parts as the shims can be hard to find in small quanities if you ever want to change your stacks later . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I'm going to do the Hyperpro changeover soon, honest. With the mild winter we've has so far I can't make myself rip the bike apart. Today going to 55 degrees, going riding. Maybe in February we'll get a foot of snow and then I'll rip the bike apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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